3 ms·

Utah has among the best schools in the nation: https://www.reddit.com/r/Utah/comments/1idrt6j/utah_spends_the_least_per_k12_pupil_in_the/?utm_source=share&utm_m

Utah has among the best schools in the nation: https://www.reddit.com/r/Utah/comments/1idrt6j/utah_spends_the_least_per_k12_pupil_in_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button https://www.reddit.com/r/Utah/comments/1idrt6j/utah_spends_t... It also has among the happiest citizens: https://www.deseret.com/utah/2024/09/09/utah-mental-health-happiness-report/ https://www.deseret.com/utah/2024/09/09/utah-mental-health-h... It has the highest economic mobility in the country: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2023/12/22/utah-tops-new-social-mobility-ranking-louisiana-comes-in-last/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2023/12/22/utah-top... Despite being filled with guns, it’s got a homicide rate only a little higher than Canada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... And it’s ranked in the top 10 states for life expectancy: https://www.axios.com/local/salt-lake-city/2022/08/24/utah-top-ten-highest-life-expectancy-united-states https://www.axios.com/local/salt-lake-city/2022/08/24/utah-t... Utah and Massachusetts are basically the steel-man versions of their respective ideologies. But Utah doesn’t have the benefit of Harvard and MIT, major Pharma companies, etc. It’s surrounded by desert and has no natural resources to speak of.

croes 2y ago
Doesn’t that contradict the negative outcome of fluoride in the water?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
jedberg 2y ago
A lot of that is due to the Mormons. While they tend to vote Republican, they are some of the biggest socialists out there. They believe in giving 10% of their income to the church (and enforce it!). Then they redistribute to their poorest members in the form of free private education at all pre-college levels and highly subsidized college as well. And with food banks, free or subsidized medical services, and whole bunch of other things the government doesn't provide. They've essentially traded one government for another, but theirs requires belief in their religion and only applies to their believers (who happen to concentrate in Utah).
- robocat 2y ago
  > [The Mormons] believe in giving 10% of their income Is that income before tax or after tax? "After tax" seems like it should be obvious, but then wouldn't that require tax specialists to decide how to deal with tax exceptions (retirement taxation incentives, donations, etcetera). If the 10% donation is tax deductible, doesn't that require some mathematics to work out the 10%? Irrelevant aside: I think the efficient altruist 10% is "We're often asked how exactly to calculate income — should it be pre-tax or post-tax? Generally, we recommend choosing the option that makes most sense to you, though we think it makes sense to choose pre-tax if your donations are tax-deductible (for example, GiftAid counts towards your Pledge!) and post-tax if they're not.". https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/pledge https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/pledge
  - jedberg 2y ago
    It's pre-tax. It comes from the Bible where you set it aside "before anything else".
    - robocat 2y ago
      What about capital appreciation? Business losses? I presume there are guidelines that get complicated? Like Halakha or Sharia?
      - jedberg 2y ago
        I'm not Mormon, so I don't know for sure, but what I hear from people are or were Mormon, the enforcement is a combination of social pressure and the Church demanding you provide them with a copy of your taxes to remain a member. I assume it's pretty loose from there.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        smj-edison 2y ago
        I'm a Mormon, so I can answer these :) I can't speak to how enforcement was in the past (I haven't researched it enough to say), but the way it currently stands is there is a yearly "tithing settlement". No tax documents are requested, all that our church has is the amount I donate. The bishop asks if I'm a full tithe payer, and accepts my answer. Social pressure perhaps? But at least where I've been it's appeal to morality as taught in our canon. Membership is not rescinded for not paying tithing, but a temple recommend requires being a full tithe payer (as reported by me). EDIT: link to the official handbook: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/34-finances-and-audits?id=title_number69&lang=eng#title_number69 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-han...

croes 2y ago

Doesn’t that contradict the negative outcome of fluoride in the water?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jedberg 2y ago

A lot of that is due to the Mormons. While they tend to vote Republican, they are some of the biggest socialists out there. They believe in giving 10% of their income to the church (and enforce it!). Then they redistribute to their poorest members in the form of free private education at all pre-college levels and highly subsidized college as well. And with food banks, free or subsidized medical services, and whole bunch of other things the government doesn't provide. They've essentially traded one government for another, but theirs requires belief in their religion and only applies to their believers (who happen to concentrate in Utah).

robocat 2y ago
> [The Mormons] believe in giving 10% of their income Is that income before tax or after tax? "After tax" seems like it should be obvious, but then wouldn't that require tax specialists to decide how to deal with tax exceptions (retirement taxation incentives, donations, etcetera). If the 10% donation is tax deductible, doesn't that require some mathematics to work out the 10%? Irrelevant aside: I think the efficient altruist 10% is "We're often asked how exactly to calculate income — should it be pre-tax or post-tax? Generally, we recommend choosing the option that makes most sense to you, though we think it makes sense to choose pre-tax if your donations are tax-deductible (for example, GiftAid counts towards your Pledge!) and post-tax if they're not.". https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/pledge https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/pledge
- jedberg 2y ago
  It's pre-tax. It comes from the Bible where you set it aside "before anything else".
  - robocat 2y ago
    What about capital appreciation? Business losses? I presume there are guidelines that get complicated? Like Halakha or Sharia?
    - jedberg 2y ago
      I'm not Mormon, so I don't know for sure, but what I hear from people are or were Mormon, the enforcement is a combination of social pressure and the Church demanding you provide them with a copy of your taxes to remain a member. I assume it's pretty loose from there.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - smj-edison 2y ago
        I'm a Mormon, so I can answer these :) I can't speak to how enforcement was in the past (I haven't researched it enough to say), but the way it currently stands is there is a yearly "tithing settlement". No tax documents are requested, all that our church has is the amount I donate. The bishop asks if I'm a full tithe payer, and accepts my answer. Social pressure perhaps? But at least where I've been it's appeal to morality as taught in our canon. Membership is not rescinded for not paying tithing, but a temple recommend requires being a full tithe payer (as reported by me). EDIT: link to the official handbook: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/34-finances-and-audits?id=title_number69&lang=eng#title_number69 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-han...