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Sounds like a social credit score derived from your entire online identity. I hope that picture of reality stays in Black Mirror. It would represent a huge de

Sounds like a social credit score derived from your entire online identity. I hope that picture of reality stays in Black Mirror. It would represent a huge decline in personal liberty in the West so I’m betting it will be so unpopular as to be impossible, especially as older voters are replaced by digital natives who are aware of the problem.

tdeck 2y ago
> I’m betting it will be so unpopular as to be impossible People have said the same thing about gutting Social Security, but it seems like that's on the chopping block right now unfortunately.
- FredPret 2y ago
  Social Security is very popular but hasn’t been baked into the Western soul for the past 1-2k years like the idea of personal agency & liberty has. In addition, SS requires a budget so is more open to controversy. Respecting individuals is free; violating their rights requires a budget as well.
  - Avshalom 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade Whose personal agency and liberty?
    - FredPret 2y ago
      Slavery was always widespread; it was Westerners who saw the moral inconsistency between their self-image and owning slaves, and then fought wars with one another and others to end it globally. The journey from serfdom to modern human rights was a long one, but it had a clear upward trend.
  - gessha 2y ago
    > personal agency & liberty Those two were very suppressed under monarchy and the Christian religion. It wasn’t until modern secularism that those two truly blossomed.
    - FredPret 2y ago
      Even so there were clear steps in the right direction. Monarchs grew steadily more circumscribed from a de jure point of view. Eventually they became constitutional monarchs, then mere figureheads. Their de facto power also went from absolute steadily downward. The same trend happened with Christianity: at one time the Pope was so powerful, he broke up the Holy Roman Empire. But there were many reformations, revolutions, Protestantism. There's a clear trend of decentralization across the entire West, spanning a thousand years - because of individuals insisting on what we now call their inalienable human rights.
tdb7893 2y ago
I think we're seeing right now that at least a decent fraction (even if it's not half) would be for it as long as it targets the right people. I think it's a mistake to think people in general are very tied to specific civil liberties for other people.
- FredPret 2y ago
  This Far Side Gallery comes to mind: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/57843176441267398/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/57843176441267398/ Any large slice of humanity will contain lots of jerks; but our progress over the past couple of thousand years has been too widespread and consistent for me to think that they'll hold us back permanently.
thrance 2y ago
Everything can be made popular through the right wing propaganda pipeline, given enough times. Republicans are now happy to see medicaid and medicare taken away, tariffs imposed on everything they buy...
- tdeck 2y ago
  Indeed, in 5 years we'll have centrist "thought leaders" telling us that maybe we should give up on women's suffrage because it's a losing issue.
  - collingreen 2y ago
    Only 5 years? Women voting seems like an easy segue from "DEI policy" or from "politics are so ugly now we need to protect the women from it". I won't be surprised if we see some calls to have voting _by household_ come back, potentially under the (nonsense) guise of fighting rigged elections.
netsharc 2y ago
Your comment assumes the sanctity of elections... How much can I win betting the 2026 or 2028 elections will look more Russia-like (or Turkey-like) vs. an election that could be called "free and fair"?
AlecSchueler 2y ago
> I hope that picture of reality stays in Black Mirror. Hasn't the Secretary of State said that several hundred people have already been targeted this way? This picture of reality is already real life for many people, their colleagues and their families.

tdeck 2y ago

> I’m betting it will be so unpopular as to be impossible People have said the same thing about gutting Social Security, but it seems like that's on the chopping block right now unfortunately.

FredPret 2y ago
Social Security is very popular but hasn’t been baked into the Western soul for the past 1-2k years like the idea of personal agency & liberty has. In addition, SS requires a budget so is more open to controversy. Respecting individuals is free; violating their rights requires a budget as well.
- Avshalom 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade Whose personal agency and liberty?
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Slavery was always widespread; it was Westerners who saw the moral inconsistency between their self-image and owning slaves, and then fought wars with one another and others to end it globally. The journey from serfdom to modern human rights was a long one, but it had a clear upward trend.
- gessha 2y ago
  > personal agency & liberty Those two were very suppressed under monarchy and the Christian religion. It wasn’t until modern secularism that those two truly blossomed.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Even so there were clear steps in the right direction. Monarchs grew steadily more circumscribed from a de jure point of view. Eventually they became constitutional monarchs, then mere figureheads. Their de facto power also went from absolute steadily downward. The same trend happened with Christianity: at one time the Pope was so powerful, he broke up the Holy Roman Empire. But there were many reformations, revolutions, Protestantism. There's a clear trend of decentralization across the entire West, spanning a thousand years - because of individuals insisting on what we now call their inalienable human rights.

tdb7893 2y ago

I think we're seeing right now that at least a decent fraction (even if it's not half) would be for it as long as it targets the right people. I think it's a mistake to think people in general are very tied to specific civil liberties for other people.

FredPret 2y ago
This Far Side Gallery comes to mind: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/57843176441267398/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/57843176441267398/ Any large slice of humanity will contain lots of jerks; but our progress over the past couple of thousand years has been too widespread and consistent for me to think that they'll hold us back permanently.

thrance 2y ago

Everything can be made popular through the right wing propaganda pipeline, given enough times. Republicans are now happy to see medicaid and medicare taken away, tariffs imposed on everything they buy...

tdeck 2y ago
Indeed, in 5 years we'll have centrist "thought leaders" telling us that maybe we should give up on women's suffrage because it's a losing issue.
- collingreen 2y ago
  Only 5 years? Women voting seems like an easy segue from "DEI policy" or from "politics are so ugly now we need to protect the women from it". I won't be surprised if we see some calls to have voting _by household_ come back, potentially under the (nonsense) guise of fighting rigged elections.

netsharc 2y ago

Your comment assumes the sanctity of elections... How much can I win betting the 2026 or 2028 elections will look more Russia-like (or Turkey-like) vs. an election that could be called "free and fair"?

AlecSchueler 2y ago

> I hope that picture of reality stays in Black Mirror. Hasn't the Secretary of State said that several hundred people have already been targeted this way? This picture of reality is already real life for many people, their colleagues and their families.