6 ms·

"the Dutch government’s willingness to follow America’s lead on export bans" is obviously the main problem. What kind of lever do the US possess on the dutch?

sebazzz 2y ago
Parts of ASML machines are also made in the US. It is more of a globalised supply chain than you might think. And there are patents, etc.
- hollerith 2y ago
  Zeiss in Germany is also an important supplier to ASML. And the leading-edge fabs are dependent on suppliers other than just ASML: some of these suppliers are US companies that sell very-expensive software.
robocat 2y ago
The EUV "lightbulb" was invented in the US and the patents are owned by the US government. For the Dutch to allow ASML to ignore those patents would create a technology economic war between the US and EU. I guess ASML could try and invent a different way to generate the EUV, but nobody has don't that yet - it is an extremely difficult problem (and took many years to find one solution). If those patents are the crux of US control, then presumably ASML will be researching alternatives (citations?). China has different solutions (in particular China can ignore US patents). From Wikipedia: To address the challenge of EUV lithography, researchers at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, and Sandia National Laboratories were funded in the 1990s to perform basic research into the technical obstacles. The results of this successful effort were disseminated via a public/private partnership Cooperative R&D Agreement (CRADA) with the invention and rights wholly owned by the US government
- deepfriedchokes 2y ago
  Patents don’t last forever.
- robocat 2y ago
  Update: Apparently China is developing its own EUV source. It would be ironic if ASML licenced new tech from China eh? Of course it's quite possible that any new Chinese techniques have some relevant patents - the video says that other EUV generation techniques were investigated in Japan and Europe. https://youtube.com/watch?v=rIR3wfZ-EV0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=rIR3wfZ-EV0

sebazzz 2y ago

Parts of ASML machines are also made in the US. It is more of a globalised supply chain than you might think. And there are patents, etc.

hollerith 2y ago
Zeiss in Germany is also an important supplier to ASML. And the leading-edge fabs are dependent on suppliers other than just ASML: some of these suppliers are US companies that sell very-expensive software.

robocat 2y ago

The EUV "lightbulb" was invented in the US and the patents are owned by the US government. For the Dutch to allow ASML to ignore those patents would create a technology economic war between the US and EU. I guess ASML could try and invent a different way to generate the EUV, but nobody has don't that yet - it is an extremely difficult problem (and took many years to find one solution). If those patents are the crux of US control, then presumably ASML will be researching alternatives (citations?). China has different solutions (in particular China can ignore US patents). From Wikipedia: To address the challenge of EUV lithography, researchers at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, and Sandia National Laboratories were funded in the 1990s to perform basic research into the technical obstacles. The results of this successful effort were disseminated via a public/private partnership Cooperative R&D Agreement (CRADA) with the invention and rights wholly owned by the US government

deepfriedchokes 2y ago
Patents don’t last forever.
robocat 2y ago
Update: Apparently China is developing its own EUV source. It would be ironic if ASML licenced new tech from China eh? Of course it's quite possible that any new Chinese techniques have some relevant patents - the video says that other EUV generation techniques were investigated in Japan and Europe. https://youtube.com/watch?v=rIR3wfZ-EV0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=rIR3wfZ-EV0