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I really disagree with this relatively-new outlook on web development. I got into web dev in 2009, though I mostly shifted to other things around 2016. But I r

by edanm 2y ago

I really disagree with this relatively-new outlook on web development. I got into web dev in 2009, though I mostly shifted to other things around 2016. But I remember what web development back then was like. You're completely missing the reason that all these "hopelessly over-engineered" frameworks were created (assuming that's what you're talking against). Angular, which was the first very popular SPA framework, made creating front ends far better, as their rising complexity made the "vanilla" solutions a mess to deal with. It's possible (though I'm not yet convinced) that nowadays, for various reasons, "vanilla" web dev is better than things like React, despite almost everyone choosing React. But it's possible. But that doesn't mean things were hopelessly overengineered for no reason. That's kind of like saying that Math before we humanity invented Hindu-Arabic numerals was overengineered and why didn't they just use proper positional notation, which are far simpler. Making simpler things work is part of the job of engineering and often takes more time and effort, and is in fact a good end result of "more engineering".

lelanthran 2y ago
> You're completely missing the reason that all these "hopelessly over-engineered" frameworks were created They were created in a very different time, to solve very different problems in a very different runtime environment. Today's browser environment does not have many of the problems these frameworks were created to solve, and the clear majority of usage in the wild solves the existing problems in a way that locks you in to the framework anyway. When I say over-engineered I don't mean that they were not necessary in the past, I'm saying that right now, in 2025, a lot of what you get from these frameworks is disproportionate to the cognitive burden they bring. I agree that they solve problems, I'm just saying that perhaps it is time to consider that the point of diminishing returns has passed.
- edanm 2y ago
  Yeah I think we agree; historically necessary, less clear if necessary now. My feeling as a not-very-in-the-loop person is that React is still the correct default choice nowadays, but it's complicated because of how entrenched it is - that is its own kind of reason to choose a solution.

by edanm 2y ago

lelanthran 2y ago

> You're completely missing the reason that all these "hopelessly over-engineered" frameworks were created They were created in a very different time, to solve very different problems in a very different runtime environment. Today's browser environment does not have many of the problems these frameworks were created to solve, and the clear majority of usage in the wild solves the existing problems in a way that locks you in to the framework anyway. When I say over-engineered I don't mean that they were not necessary in the past, I'm saying that right now, in 2025, a lot of what you get from these frameworks is disproportionate to the cognitive burden they bring. I agree that they solve problems, I'm just saying that perhaps it is time to consider that the point of diminishing returns has passed.

edanm 2y ago
Yeah I think we agree; historically necessary, less clear if necessary now. My feeling as a not-very-in-the-loop person is that React is still the correct default choice nowadays, but it's complicated because of how entrenched it is - that is its own kind of reason to choose a solution.