4 ms·

As a christian, I can handle this concept. But only in the context where the deity accepts that I can never be perfect and yet can be acceptable. This concept,

As a christian, I can handle this concept. But only in the context where the deity accepts that I can never be perfect and yet can be acceptable. This concept, though biblical, is hardly ever taught because of the fear of it being taken advantage of. The deity requires effort, not perfection. If this is false, then the messiah was a complete waste of time.

mullingitover 2y ago
> But only in the context where the deity accepts that I can never be perfect and yet can be acceptable. This is the religion where everyone, over 6000 years later, is being vindictively punished because a couple of their ancestors, in a single instance, broke a rule about eating from one of the trees. The deity, who is omnipotent and could decide stop this all at any time, allows for all manner of terrible diseases and pestilence to be visited on innocent children.
- Veelox 2y ago
  A few thoughts. One is that not all of christendom subscribes to the view that it was literally one man, some take a less literal view. Second, a vast majority of human suffering is down stream of human decisions. Yes it is possible for an omnipotent being to stop all suffering but I would argue it would remove all moral decision making from humans which is important.
  - esperent 2y ago
    > not all of christendom subscribes to the view that it was literally one man, some take a less literal view I grew up in a Christian country and your "some" is doing a lot of work. Sure, perhaps some specific Christian theologists take that view. But, all actual Christians are taught from childhood that it was one specific man, tempted by one specific woman into eating a literal fruit. The only thing that's generally mentioned as open to interpretation is whether the fruit was an apple. You might get exposed to more nuanced theological views if you study at a seminary, but not while living your life as an average person who identifies as Christian, which is the vast majority.
    - ipaddr 2y ago
      The majority of Christians (Catholics) are told to not read the bible literally. Taking the bible literally is where logic and critical thinking breakdown.
    - elros 2y ago
      I thought the apple thing was understood to be a Latin pun between “malum” (evil) and “mālum” (apple). Isn’t it so?
      - taneq 2y ago
        Ah yes, hence "maleficarum" being an alternate name for AppleTalk. :D (Source: I made this up.)
  - thowawatp302 2y ago
    > One is that not all of christendom subscribes to the view that it was literally one man, some take a less literal view. That is such a tiny minority I’ve never even heard of that until now
    - genghisjahn 2y ago
      It’s a lot larger than you think.
  - thih9 2y ago
    > Second, a vast majority of human suffering is down stream of human decisions. This implies there is a small minority, i.e. human suffering not down stream of human decisions - what about that? I actually don’t want to argue, I can understand that for some people disregarding that part or finding an explanation is enough and still helpful. My point is to highlight that, similarly, for others, this idea and its interpretations are unhelpful.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    > One is that not all of christendom subscribes to the view that it was literally one man, some take a less literal view. I was raised Catholic (mass every weekend, CCD through 8th grade) and not once were we ever taught your interpretation. It was Adam and Eve, one man, one woman.
    - mathgeek 2y ago
      It’s not a part of Catholic doctrine. You won’t find the core beliefs of much, much more mainstream sects in Catholic teachings, let alone the more uncommon beliefs that are out there.
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  That’s exactly what made me renounce christianity. In kindergarten.
- smackeyacky 2y ago
  Bro. This might be technically correct but you are far from the first person who posited these questions and won’t be the last to be swamped with responses trying to “save” you. Let the morons be morons and just stop poking the hornets nest.

mullingitover 2y ago

> But only in the context where the deity accepts that I can never be perfect and yet can be acceptable. This is the religion where everyone, over 6000 years later, is being vindictively punished because a couple of their ancestors, in a single instance, broke a rule about eating from one of the trees. The deity, who is omnipotent and could decide stop this all at any time, allows for all manner of terrible diseases and pestilence to be visited on innocent children.

Veelox 2y ago
A few thoughts. One is that not all of christendom subscribes to the view that it was literally one man, some take a less literal view. Second, a vast majority of human suffering is down stream of human decisions. Yes it is possible for an omnipotent being to stop all suffering but I would argue it would remove all moral decision making from humans which is important.
- esperent 2y ago
  > not all of christendom subscribes to the view that it was literally one man, some take a less literal view I grew up in a Christian country and your "some" is doing a lot of work. Sure, perhaps some specific Christian theologists take that view. But, all actual Christians are taught from childhood that it was one specific man, tempted by one specific woman into eating a literal fruit. The only thing that's generally mentioned as open to interpretation is whether the fruit was an apple. You might get exposed to more nuanced theological views if you study at a seminary, but not while living your life as an average person who identifies as Christian, which is the vast majority.
  - ipaddr 2y ago
    The majority of Christians (Catholics) are told to not read the bible literally. Taking the bible literally is where logic and critical thinking breakdown.
  - elros 2y ago
    I thought the apple thing was understood to be a Latin pun between “malum” (evil) and “mālum” (apple). Isn’t it so?
    - taneq 2y ago
      Ah yes, hence "maleficarum" being an alternate name for AppleTalk. :D (Source: I made this up.)
- thowawatp302 2y ago
  > One is that not all of christendom subscribes to the view that it was literally one man, some take a less literal view. That is such a tiny minority I’ve never even heard of that until now
  - genghisjahn 2y ago
    It’s a lot larger than you think.
- thih9 2y ago
  > Second, a vast majority of human suffering is down stream of human decisions. This implies there is a small minority, i.e. human suffering not down stream of human decisions - what about that? I actually don’t want to argue, I can understand that for some people disregarding that part or finding an explanation is enough and still helpful. My point is to highlight that, similarly, for others, this idea and its interpretations are unhelpful.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > One is that not all of christendom subscribes to the view that it was literally one man, some take a less literal view. I was raised Catholic (mass every weekend, CCD through 8th grade) and not once were we ever taught your interpretation. It was Adam and Eve, one man, one woman.
  - mathgeek 2y ago
    It’s not a part of Catholic doctrine. You won’t find the core beliefs of much, much more mainstream sects in Catholic teachings, let alone the more uncommon beliefs that are out there.
spiderfarmer 2y ago
That’s exactly what made me renounce christianity. In kindergarten.
smackeyacky 2y ago
Bro. This might be technically correct but you are far from the first person who posited these questions and won’t be the last to be swamped with responses trying to “save” you. Let the morons be morons and just stop poking the hornets nest.