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It should be noted that the other xAI shareholders are/were supportive of the X takeover and all. So although I personally don’t like Elon, this doesn’t seem li

It should be noted that the other xAI shareholders are/were supportive of the X takeover and all. So although I personally don’t like Elon, this doesn’t seem like self dealing as many here claim. Solar City worked out well even though it too seemed like self dealing. There are actually bad things to hate him for but acquisitions fraud is probably not on the table.

deeth_starr_v 2y ago
Solar City did not work out well. What are you talking about? That acquisition was a fraud
whats_a_quasar 2y ago
What's the source / evidence for that? If the xAI shareholders really are all fine with it there's no ethical issue. But they have to be basically unanimously ok with the deal. Even a small investor has the right to not have their capital used for an insanely conflicted deal.
gwern 2y ago
> It should be noted that the other xAI shareholders are/were supportive of the X takeover and all. No xAI shareholder has any incentive to be honest about that. If they criticize it, Musk will cut them out of all future investments. And if they are an xAI shareholder, criticism may well be grounds for seizing their equity. Particularly if they are an xAI employee: Musk companies usually have a equity contract & NDA which says that your options can be canceled at any time for $0, they can be bought back even if vested, you are not allowed to sell without their permission while they are private (ie. forever), and you are gagged about all this: https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/15/spacex-employee-stock-sales-forbidden/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/15/spacex-employee-stock-sale... (Similar to Altman's OpenAI NDAs and equity agreements that OAers were unpleasantly surprised to discover back around the coup.)
- arandomusername 2y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if most X investors were already investors in xAI anyway. Probably a big reason they got into X is for future investments and spacex.
hristov 2y ago
The WSJ article says that most of the minority non-musk investors of xAI are also non-Musk investors of Twitter. So they are self dealing as well. It is just one giant orgy of self dealing. Apologies about the mental image.
goldfish3 2y ago
That does not make it any more or less self-dealing. Just means its investors love getting scammed.

deeth_starr_v 2y ago

Solar City did not work out well. What are you talking about? That acquisition was a fraud

whats_a_quasar 2y ago

What's the source / evidence for that? If the xAI shareholders really are all fine with it there's no ethical issue. But they have to be basically unanimously ok with the deal. Even a small investor has the right to not have their capital used for an insanely conflicted deal.

gwern 2y ago

> It should be noted that the other xAI shareholders are/were supportive of the X takeover and all. No xAI shareholder has any incentive to be honest about that. If they criticize it, Musk will cut them out of all future investments. And if they are an xAI shareholder, criticism may well be grounds for seizing their equity. Particularly if they are an xAI employee: Musk companies usually have a equity contract & NDA which says that your options can be canceled at any time for $0, they can be bought back even if vested, you are not allowed to sell without their permission while they are private (ie. forever), and you are gagged about all this: https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/15/spacex-employee-stock-sales-forbidden/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/15/spacex-employee-stock-sale... (Similar to Altman's OpenAI NDAs and equity agreements that OAers were unpleasantly surprised to discover back around the coup.)

arandomusername 2y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if most X investors were already investors in xAI anyway. Probably a big reason they got into X is for future investments and spacex.

hristov 2y ago

The WSJ article says that most of the minority non-musk investors of xAI are also non-Musk investors of Twitter. So they are self dealing as well. It is just one giant orgy of self dealing. Apologies about the mental image.

goldfish3 2y ago

That does not make it any more or less self-dealing. Just means its investors love getting scammed.