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> Call it whatever you want but you're going to be incredibly hard-pressed to find anyone that can mix as smoothly on vinyl as someone decent with CDJs. Sure it

> Call it whatever you want but you're going to be incredibly hard-pressed to find anyone that can mix as smoothly on vinyl as someone decent with CDJs. Sure it's a cool dying art and analog and all that but at this point virtually anyone trying to play vinyl out is sacrificing the listening experience for cool points That's a sad commentary on today's DJs then. Yes, there were some very bad vinyl DJs that loved the shoes in the dryer mixes and could not advance past that. They love the "beatmatch" magic. Doesn't mean that those that could are less of a DJ which is what you're trying to say? My perfect setup would be vinyl controllers of a digital player which is very much a thing. Of course, hearing a DJ mix vinyl that is older with all of the snap crackle pops of a burning log is not pleasant, but that does not diminish the vinyl as a controller being superior to a tiny plastic spin wheel on a digital controller.

jonwinstanley 2y ago
I agree that the beat sync tools feel like cheating for the old school DJs, but the newer generation are using it to get more creative. Without spending half the time beat matching, they now have time to interact with the tracks more - play with stems, loops, filters, fx, scratching etc. It’s becoming more of a live performance
- dylan604 2y ago
  Becoming? May I introduce you to the DMC World Championships https://www.dmcdjchamps.com/ https://www.dmcdjchamps.com/ edit: Also, I take offense to the insinuation that "old skool" DJs are not using new things to be more "creative". Old skool DJs are not old dawgs that can't learn new tricks.
- w_TF 2y ago
  >but the newer generation are using it to get more creative. Without spending half the time beat matching, they now have time to interact with the tracks more - play with stems, loops, filters, fx, scratching etc. >It’s becoming more of a live performance while this is true in theory, i find that sometimes the new tools end up becoming a crutch making djs extremely boring the extra time freed up from not having to concentrate on beatmatching etc. is replaced with nothing a lot of the time i have no idea what people are even doing they may as well just be playing a playlist from spotify whereas i can generally discern what a vinyl dj is doing, and watching someone like jeff mills dig through piles of records & spinning 3 decks while being on the edge of trainwrecking has a kind of energy and tension that gets lost and is not replicable with newer technology it's sorta like someone being able to sing really well naturally vs someone with autotune that being said i've still seen amazing sets from digital djs or people with interesting live setups
  - jrowen 2y ago
    One of the commonly extolled virtues of playing vinyl is that you're "just playing records." As in, not using any fancy effects and tricks. For a lot of people, this is enough, and it's mostly about your music collection and song selection. If you're really good at vinyl, you're not doing much most of the time either and you can dance around and dig through records. Nothing about this needs to change when switching to CDJs. People get hung up on all this stuff that has very little to do with what matters most at the end of the day, which is the sound coming out of the speakers, and the experience of the audience (which I will grant that the visual aspect of watching the performer is a part of). Deadmau5 talks about stuff like this...basically everyone at a major festival is playing a prerecorded set so that visuals and lights and the rest of the show can be synced up. It doesn't matter what tools you use or how much work you're doing as long as people are entertained. It's about putting on the best show you can. Jeff Mills is a God-like legend, of course your average local DJ isn't going to compare. It is a bit like being a real estate agent in that the barrier to entry is super low now but you still have to be skilled in some way or another to be really successful.
    - jonwinstanley 2y ago
      I know what you mean. It’s just becoming a different thing for some people. Playing records the old way is great. I saw a Hor Berlin video by Serafina and she looks to be fully beat synced the whole time but is making her own music from the 4 decks she has going. Although 1 does seem to just be a drum loop.
    - jonwinstanley 2y ago
      Presumably James Hype uses beat sync too? Surely he doesn’t have time to beat match between all the loops/hot cues etc
jrowen 2y ago
That's a sad commentary on today's DJs then. Not really, you just have a lot more information and tools at your disposal. It's going to be a better performance. In no other area of endeavor is anyone expected to limit themselves to decades-old technology, that would just be madness. but that does not diminish the vinyl as a controller being superior to a tiny plastic spin wheel on a digital controller. How is it superior? We've just covered so many ways it's inferior. I have a number of friends that are really into vinyl, I've never really "gotten" it, there's no argument other than this kind of nostalgic fetish (which I'm not saying is for nothing, but I usually just want to use whatever technology I can to create the best experience for the listener).
- dylan604 2y ago
  If you've never used vinyl enough to "get it", then how can you say that it's inferior. The tactile experience of controlling the sound with the vinyl is so different than some digital plastic feeling controller. Yes, the higher end CDJs have a better feel to them decades later, but it is still not the same. At this point we might as well be arguing about tab vs spaces. Using vinyl is my thing, and it is just not going to be possible to explain why I like it so much without the both of us being at the gear. Words do not convey the same as the touch
  - calmoo 2y ago
    you're arguing about something different to the person you're replying to.
    - lbotos 2y ago
      He's.... not tho? > but that does not diminish the vinyl as a controller being superior to a tiny plastic spin wheel on a digital controller. It's absolutely objective, but the feel of vinyl on a slipmat is absolutely so much nicer than a jog wheel. But many ppl barely even use jog wheels these days. Just nudging to get in time. When you spend countless hours getting the right light touch on a vinyl that Tactile feel is absolutely lacking when it comes to more digital interfaces. I'm not arguing vinyl records sound better. GP and me are arguing that it feels better.

jonwinstanley 2y ago

I agree that the beat sync tools feel like cheating for the old school DJs, but the newer generation are using it to get more creative. Without spending half the time beat matching, they now have time to interact with the tracks more - play with stems, loops, filters, fx, scratching etc. It’s becoming more of a live performance

dylan604 2y ago
Becoming? May I introduce you to the DMC World Championships https://www.dmcdjchamps.com/ https://www.dmcdjchamps.com/ edit: Also, I take offense to the insinuation that "old skool" DJs are not using new things to be more "creative". Old skool DJs are not old dawgs that can't learn new tricks.
w_TF 2y ago
>but the newer generation are using it to get more creative. Without spending half the time beat matching, they now have time to interact with the tracks more - play with stems, loops, filters, fx, scratching etc. >It’s becoming more of a live performance while this is true in theory, i find that sometimes the new tools end up becoming a crutch making djs extremely boring the extra time freed up from not having to concentrate on beatmatching etc. is replaced with nothing a lot of the time i have no idea what people are even doing they may as well just be playing a playlist from spotify whereas i can generally discern what a vinyl dj is doing, and watching someone like jeff mills dig through piles of records & spinning 3 decks while being on the edge of trainwrecking has a kind of energy and tension that gets lost and is not replicable with newer technology it's sorta like someone being able to sing really well naturally vs someone with autotune that being said i've still seen amazing sets from digital djs or people with interesting live setups
- jrowen 2y ago
  One of the commonly extolled virtues of playing vinyl is that you're "just playing records." As in, not using any fancy effects and tricks. For a lot of people, this is enough, and it's mostly about your music collection and song selection. If you're really good at vinyl, you're not doing much most of the time either and you can dance around and dig through records. Nothing about this needs to change when switching to CDJs. People get hung up on all this stuff that has very little to do with what matters most at the end of the day, which is the sound coming out of the speakers, and the experience of the audience (which I will grant that the visual aspect of watching the performer is a part of). Deadmau5 talks about stuff like this...basically everyone at a major festival is playing a prerecorded set so that visuals and lights and the rest of the show can be synced up. It doesn't matter what tools you use or how much work you're doing as long as people are entertained. It's about putting on the best show you can. Jeff Mills is a God-like legend, of course your average local DJ isn't going to compare. It is a bit like being a real estate agent in that the barrier to entry is super low now but you still have to be skilled in some way or another to be really successful.
  - jonwinstanley 2y ago
    I know what you mean. It’s just becoming a different thing for some people. Playing records the old way is great. I saw a Hor Berlin video by Serafina and she looks to be fully beat synced the whole time but is making her own music from the 4 decks she has going. Although 1 does seem to just be a drum loop.
  - jonwinstanley 2y ago
    Presumably James Hype uses beat sync too? Surely he doesn’t have time to beat match between all the loops/hot cues etc

jrowen 2y ago

That's a sad commentary on today's DJs then. Not really, you just have a lot more information and tools at your disposal. It's going to be a better performance. In no other area of endeavor is anyone expected to limit themselves to decades-old technology, that would just be madness. but that does not diminish the vinyl as a controller being superior to a tiny plastic spin wheel on a digital controller. How is it superior? We've just covered so many ways it's inferior. I have a number of friends that are really into vinyl, I've never really "gotten" it, there's no argument other than this kind of nostalgic fetish (which I'm not saying is for nothing, but I usually just want to use whatever technology I can to create the best experience for the listener).

dylan604 2y ago
If you've never used vinyl enough to "get it", then how can you say that it's inferior. The tactile experience of controlling the sound with the vinyl is so different than some digital plastic feeling controller. Yes, the higher end CDJs have a better feel to them decades later, but it is still not the same. At this point we might as well be arguing about tab vs spaces. Using vinyl is my thing, and it is just not going to be possible to explain why I like it so much without the both of us being at the gear. Words do not convey the same as the touch
- calmoo 2y ago
  you're arguing about something different to the person you're replying to.
  - lbotos 2y ago
    He's.... not tho? > but that does not diminish the vinyl as a controller being superior to a tiny plastic spin wheel on a digital controller. It's absolutely objective, but the feel of vinyl on a slipmat is absolutely so much nicer than a jog wheel. But many ppl barely even use jog wheels these days. Just nudging to get in time. When you spend countless hours getting the right light touch on a vinyl that Tactile feel is absolutely lacking when it comes to more digital interfaces. I'm not arguing vinyl records sound better. GP and me are arguing that it feels better.