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> Why not criticize all the people sitting at home, rather than calling the ones actually trying "pathetic"? This is quite the whataboutism. Just because I cr

> Why not criticize all the people sitting at home, rather than calling the ones actually trying "pathetic"? This is quite the whataboutism. Just because I criticize the protestors doesn't mean I'm defending people that don't protest. You're right, it's a start. But pragmatically it's still not meaningful. Until the protests are strong enough that the government actually feels fear there is no reason to expect anything to happen. That's just reality.

Trasmatta 2y ago
It's a whole lot more meaningful than the people who sit at home waiting for someone else to do something. Again, movements always start somewhere.
- MegaButts 2y ago
  If the protest is ineffective then the protest is ineffective. I don't care how hard you tried, I care how effective you were. Pragmatically, if the protest doesn't change anything, it's not any better than sitting at home. If that protest leads to bigger protests that ultimately change something, then that matters. Yes, everything has to start somewhere. But that doesn't mean every start is meaningful if it goes nowhere.
  - voidhorse 2y ago
    Huh? I think you've reached a reduction ad absurdium that would suggest quietism as the best policy, you claim: protests aren't meaningful unless they get results but protests also have to start somewhere but these starts have no results so better not to start Do you really expect a singular protest which will change the world order over night? It might give us some personal satisfaction to claim others are ineffective and weak, but in the annals of history, that amounts to even less than a sign bearing march. If you really want to make an impact put forward some positive prescriptions, like the strikes you mentioned, I agree that actual strikes would be a good step. I hope you are actively sharing these recommendations to people who can organize and not just putting forward diffuse ineffectual critique to strangers on hacker news
    - MegaButts 2y ago
      I never said you shouldn't protest. I said the current protests are pathetic.
      - voidhorse 2y ago
        Fair enough. I will say that you do not need to explicitly say something for your line of argumentation to imply it as a logical consequence. I would stress that such a judgement (that the effort is pathetic) is not constructive. What we need right now are concrete, constructive, positive suggestions on how to make these efforts more effective. Value judgements like this, as much as they might make us feel better by giving us a claim to superiority, accomplish nothing.
        MegaButts 2y ago
        > I will say that you do not need to explicitly say something for your line of argumentation to imply it as a logical consequence. Maybe you should read my actual comments instead of jumping to conclusions. In my first comment I made it clear that protests are useless until the government fears you. If I can ignore you easily, so can the government. Nobody gives a shit about you holding a sign. Until you can make the government scared of you as far as I'm concerned you may as well sit your ass at home. I'm not here to validate your feelings or cheer you on. I'm pointing out why you're failing and you're snapping back like I give a shit. You're welcome to ignore me just as easily as it is for me to ignore the current protests.

Trasmatta 2y ago

It's a whole lot more meaningful than the people who sit at home waiting for someone else to do something. Again, movements always start somewhere.

MegaButts 2y ago
If the protest is ineffective then the protest is ineffective. I don't care how hard you tried, I care how effective you were. Pragmatically, if the protest doesn't change anything, it's not any better than sitting at home. If that protest leads to bigger protests that ultimately change something, then that matters. Yes, everything has to start somewhere. But that doesn't mean every start is meaningful if it goes nowhere.
- voidhorse 2y ago
  Huh? I think you've reached a reduction ad absurdium that would suggest quietism as the best policy, you claim: protests aren't meaningful unless they get results but protests also have to start somewhere but these starts have no results so better not to start Do you really expect a singular protest which will change the world order over night? It might give us some personal satisfaction to claim others are ineffective and weak, but in the annals of history, that amounts to even less than a sign bearing march. If you really want to make an impact put forward some positive prescriptions, like the strikes you mentioned, I agree that actual strikes would be a good step. I hope you are actively sharing these recommendations to people who can organize and not just putting forward diffuse ineffectual critique to strangers on hacker news
  - MegaButts 2y ago
    I never said you shouldn't protest. I said the current protests are pathetic.
    - voidhorse 2y ago
      Fair enough. I will say that you do not need to explicitly say something for your line of argumentation to imply it as a logical consequence. I would stress that such a judgement (that the effort is pathetic) is not constructive. What we need right now are concrete, constructive, positive suggestions on how to make these efforts more effective. Value judgements like this, as much as they might make us feel better by giving us a claim to superiority, accomplish nothing.
      - MegaButts 2y ago
        > I will say that you do not need to explicitly say something for your line of argumentation to imply it as a logical consequence. Maybe you should read my actual comments instead of jumping to conclusions. In my first comment I made it clear that protests are useless until the government fears you. If I can ignore you easily, so can the government. Nobody gives a shit about you holding a sign. Until you can make the government scared of you as far as I'm concerned you may as well sit your ass at home. I'm not here to validate your feelings or cheer you on. I'm pointing out why you're failing and you're snapping back like I give a shit. You're welcome to ignore me just as easily as it is for me to ignore the current protests.