4 ms·

I do believe these these DOGErs are principled honest state servants, until proven otherwise.

by justanotheratom 2y ago

xenocratus 2y ago
Chill, this isn't a court of law, people can have opinions
- justanotheratom 2y ago
  Well, if you want to give your opinion in public, maybe you can give some explanation for your cynicism too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7kQNwJ4H_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7kQNwJ4H_w
  - nerdponx 2y ago
    They might believe that they are, or might publicly claim that they are. That doesn't mean that they are. It should be pretty clear that, if they intend to be honest state servants just trying to make things more efficient and less expensive, they're doing a pretty bad job of it. They are already fudging their savings numbers to make it look 3+ orders of magnitude bigger than it is, and even the savings that they did find has mostly been short-term savings that have obvious, real, negative long-term consequences primarily for Americans in America and little consequence for anyone else. What DOGE is doing is like getting up at 5 AM and sealing off the gas line to your furnace, then claiming that you saved a big chunk of your family's monthly finances, when in reality your heating bill is 1/100th the cost of your rent or mortgage, and you're going to be pretty sad that your furnace doesn't work when the winter comes, and you're going to have to pay a professional to un-break your heat, probably a lot more than you saved to begin with. And pissing off your whole family in the meantime. Even in an alternate reality where Musk and Trump have genuinely good intentions to reform waste and corruption (narrator: they don't), it would be hard to imagine a worse way of going about it.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    You should go check out early Sam Bankman-Fried interviews. Dude was super altruistic.
    - justanotheratom 2y ago
      Hah, you do realize that joker was a product of the left, and he was spewing all the right words that the left likes to hear? He tried to invest in Elon's companies, and Elon refused because he could smell the fraud from a mile out. Pick one of the DOGE employees and try to articulate what fraud they are trying to commit for themselves?
      - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        While you appear to want a hyper partisan discussion, that wasn’t my point. The issue is that saying the right things doesn’t mean someone has good motives or will do good things. SBF talked a lot about altruism and doing good, and people across the board believed him. The real problem is that being good at using the right language can cover up bad behavior. As for the DOGE folks, I didn’t say they’re committing fraud. I just think a slick PR video shouldn’t be taken at face value. A little skepticism is healthy, especially when there’s hype and money involved. They've exempted themselves from standard accountability tools like FOIA, so we can't really look into what they're doing. Their position is that the public has no right to that level of visibility.
        justanotheratom 2y ago
        Actually, there is a partisan distinction that I am trying to make here, so I guess I can't not sound partisan. And the distinction is this: The left gets too hung up on morality. So, they are prone to trusting slick talkers like SBF or Newsom, who say the right things and use the right language, with no actual substance. Now, as to the DOGE folks, they have presumably given up their lucrative businesses/careers, and joined this effort to help the nation (according to them). Can you atleast give me a theorical story about how one of these individuals could have a sinister plan to defraud the american people? If they are doing forensics on govt finances, I am not sure what is there to FOIA. Plus, they are publishing extensive data on doge.gov. Nevertheless, in principle, doge shouldn't be exempt from FOIA.
brazzy 2y ago
Literally everything they have been doing proves that they are not.
- justanotheratom 2y ago
  Give one example.
  - roxolotl 2y ago
    The US government doesn’t run in the way they are acting like it does. The executive branch exists to execute laws as written by congress; it’s in the name. If congress passed no laws the president would have nothing to do besides negotiate with other foreign heads of state and be commander in chief. Most of what DOGE is cutting has been legislated. Which is not something allowed to be done by president or the executive branch. Of course they can make the case to congress that certain agencies shouldn’t exist, and pass laws removing or defunding them. Or they could pass a law giving DOGE powers. Of course there are modern legal theories which disagree with what I’ve said above. However they are modern, untested, and largely ahistorical.
mschoch 2y ago
[dead]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
y-c-o-m-b 2y ago
It has been proven otherwise: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doge-staffer-big-balls-provided-tech-support-cybercrime-ring-records-show-2025-03-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doge-staffer-big-balls-prov... What about these people says to you that they are "principled" or "honest" when they've already been outed doing exactly the opposite of those traits?

I do believe these these DOGErs are principled honest state servants, until proven otherwise.

xenocratus 2y ago

Chill, this isn't a court of law, people can have opinions

justanotheratom 2y ago
Well, if you want to give your opinion in public, maybe you can give some explanation for your cynicism too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7kQNwJ4H_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7kQNwJ4H_w
- nerdponx 2y ago
  They might believe that they are, or might publicly claim that they are. That doesn't mean that they are. It should be pretty clear that, if they intend to be honest state servants just trying to make things more efficient and less expensive, they're doing a pretty bad job of it. They are already fudging their savings numbers to make it look 3+ orders of magnitude bigger than it is, and even the savings that they did find has mostly been short-term savings that have obvious, real, negative long-term consequences primarily for Americans in America and little consequence for anyone else. What DOGE is doing is like getting up at 5 AM and sealing off the gas line to your furnace, then claiming that you saved a big chunk of your family's monthly finances, when in reality your heating bill is 1/100th the cost of your rent or mortgage, and you're going to be pretty sad that your furnace doesn't work when the winter comes, and you're going to have to pay a professional to un-break your heat, probably a lot more than you saved to begin with. And pissing off your whole family in the meantime. Even in an alternate reality where Musk and Trump have genuinely good intentions to reform waste and corruption (narrator: they don't), it would be hard to imagine a worse way of going about it.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  You should go check out early Sam Bankman-Fried interviews. Dude was super altruistic.
  - justanotheratom 2y ago
    Hah, you do realize that joker was a product of the left, and he was spewing all the right words that the left likes to hear? He tried to invest in Elon's companies, and Elon refused because he could smell the fraud from a mile out. Pick one of the DOGE employees and try to articulate what fraud they are trying to commit for themselves?
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      While you appear to want a hyper partisan discussion, that wasn’t my point. The issue is that saying the right things doesn’t mean someone has good motives or will do good things. SBF talked a lot about altruism and doing good, and people across the board believed him. The real problem is that being good at using the right language can cover up bad behavior. As for the DOGE folks, I didn’t say they’re committing fraud. I just think a slick PR video shouldn’t be taken at face value. A little skepticism is healthy, especially when there’s hype and money involved. They've exempted themselves from standard accountability tools like FOIA, so we can't really look into what they're doing. Their position is that the public has no right to that level of visibility.
      - justanotheratom 2y ago
        Actually, there is a partisan distinction that I am trying to make here, so I guess I can't not sound partisan. And the distinction is this: The left gets too hung up on morality. So, they are prone to trusting slick talkers like SBF or Newsom, who say the right things and use the right language, with no actual substance. Now, as to the DOGE folks, they have presumably given up their lucrative businesses/careers, and joined this effort to help the nation (according to them). Can you atleast give me a theorical story about how one of these individuals could have a sinister plan to defraud the american people? If they are doing forensics on govt finances, I am not sure what is there to FOIA. Plus, they are publishing extensive data on doge.gov. Nevertheless, in principle, doge shouldn't be exempt from FOIA.

brazzy 2y ago

Literally everything they have been doing proves that they are not.

justanotheratom 2y ago
Give one example.
- roxolotl 2y ago
  The US government doesn’t run in the way they are acting like it does. The executive branch exists to execute laws as written by congress; it’s in the name. If congress passed no laws the president would have nothing to do besides negotiate with other foreign heads of state and be commander in chief. Most of what DOGE is cutting has been legislated. Which is not something allowed to be done by president or the executive branch. Of course they can make the case to congress that certain agencies shouldn’t exist, and pass laws removing or defunding them. Or they could pass a law giving DOGE powers. Of course there are modern legal theories which disagree with what I’ve said above. However they are modern, untested, and largely ahistorical.

mschoch 2y ago

[dead]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

y-c-o-m-b 2y ago

It has been proven otherwise: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doge-staffer-big-balls-provided-tech-support-cybercrime-ring-records-show-2025-03-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doge-staffer-big-balls-prov... What about these people says to you that they are "principled" or "honest" when they've already been outed doing exactly the opposite of those traits?