4 ms·

I haven't seen or touched a 6502 based computer since 1986. Are people using those ancient computers or actually using new(er) ones? I see 6502 based kits are

by hasbot 2y ago

I haven't seen or touched a 6502 based computer since 1986. Are people using those ancient computers or actually using new(er) ones? I see 6502 based kits are available as are some new SBCs.

kev009 2y ago
Both. You can buy trainers with old chips like this, z80, CDP1802, 8080, 6509 etc. The main advantage of the new SBCs is simplicity vs anything more modern and easier to deal with than a retro computer. The advantage of a retro computer is it has some intrinsic value and probably a large body of contemporary software.
kjs3 2y ago
They still manufacture 6502s (and some periph chips) and you can license the core IP for your FPGA/ASIC [1]. There are dev boards (I have a W65C02SXB and it's kinda nifty) [2]. You can buy them from Mouser. There's apparently still demand in the embedded space that justifies keeping them in production. [1] https://www.westerndesigncenter.com/ https://www.westerndesigncenter.com/ [2] https://wdc65xx.com/Single-Board-Computers https://wdc65xx.com/Single-Board-Computers
- homarp 2y ago
  olimex sells one too https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/Neo6502/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/Neo6502/open...
wvenable 2y ago
I build my own 6502 from Ben Eaters kit -- expanded it quite a bit now with more changes in progress.
- hasbot 2y ago
  Why? Why not use a modern and more powerful chip like the ESP32?
  - anyfoo 2y ago
    Is that a serious question? Because you can slap a 6502 on a breadboard, make your own busses with wires, and understand every single aspect of it, hardware and software. Ben Eater also had a video series about designing and making his own CPU from logic chips. He switched to 6502 likely because progressing up the stack, it started to become too big.
    - hasbot 2y ago
      Of course it's a serious question. When I do a micro controller based project, processor selection is an important consideration. One can slap an ESP32 or a CH552 or dozens of others on a breadboard too and do everything you mentioned. But, I honestly haven't ever considered any of the ancient microprocessors.
      - wvenable 2y ago
        I'm building a 6502 system to build a 6502 a system -- it's a hobby. The challenge is accomplishing things using limited technology. It's art. I'm building the computer (with paging and "kernel mode"), an operating system, programming languages, GUI, etc. Keeping it 8bit also helps keeps the scale small and doable. When I do a "microcontroller project" then I slap an ESP32, Arduino, or Pi Pico on the breadboard -- not a 6502.
      - anyfoo 2y ago
        These projects are not done to solve “real problems”, they are done as educational engineering challenges and playgrounds. Of course a modern microcontroller does everything and much much more, but it is also extremely opaque, and even the ones considered “simple” nowadays might not be fully understandable in every single aspect by just a single person. Now, nothing prevents you from still using a 6502 based project for “real problems” as well, and it’s fun to use your pet project for something practical every once in a while, but that’s usually not the focus. The focus is learning, building, intentionally reinventing the wheel so to speak. In my previous comment to you, I mentioned how Ben Eater made a self-designed CPU in his excellent video series, before switching to the 6502 to explore higher abstraction layers. In that case it may be more obvious that the focus was on designing the CPU itself, not on any a priori application use case for it.

by hasbot 2y ago

I haven't seen or touched a 6502 based computer since 1986. Are people using those ancient computers or actually using new(er) ones? I see 6502 based kits are available as are some new SBCs.

kev009 2y ago

Both. You can buy trainers with old chips like this, z80, CDP1802, 8080, 6509 etc. The main advantage of the new SBCs is simplicity vs anything more modern and easier to deal with than a retro computer. The advantage of a retro computer is it has some intrinsic value and probably a large body of contemporary software.

kjs3 2y ago

They still manufacture 6502s (and some periph chips) and you can license the core IP for your FPGA/ASIC [1]. There are dev boards (I have a W65C02SXB and it's kinda nifty) [2]. You can buy them from Mouser. There's apparently still demand in the embedded space that justifies keeping them in production. [1] https://www.westerndesigncenter.com/ https://www.westerndesigncenter.com/ [2] https://wdc65xx.com/Single-Board-Computers https://wdc65xx.com/Single-Board-Computers

homarp 2y ago
olimex sells one too https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/Neo6502/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/Neo6502/open...

wvenable 2y ago

I build my own 6502 from Ben Eaters kit -- expanded it quite a bit now with more changes in progress.

hasbot 2y ago
Why? Why not use a modern and more powerful chip like the ESP32?
- anyfoo 2y ago
  Is that a serious question? Because you can slap a 6502 on a breadboard, make your own busses with wires, and understand every single aspect of it, hardware and software. Ben Eater also had a video series about designing and making his own CPU from logic chips. He switched to 6502 likely because progressing up the stack, it started to become too big.
  - hasbot 2y ago
    Of course it's a serious question. When I do a micro controller based project, processor selection is an important consideration. One can slap an ESP32 or a CH552 or dozens of others on a breadboard too and do everything you mentioned. But, I honestly haven't ever considered any of the ancient microprocessors.
    - wvenable 2y ago
      I'm building a 6502 system to build a 6502 a system -- it's a hobby. The challenge is accomplishing things using limited technology. It's art. I'm building the computer (with paging and "kernel mode"), an operating system, programming languages, GUI, etc. Keeping it 8bit also helps keeps the scale small and doable. When I do a "microcontroller project" then I slap an ESP32, Arduino, or Pi Pico on the breadboard -- not a 6502.
    - anyfoo 2y ago
      These projects are not done to solve “real problems”, they are done as educational engineering challenges and playgrounds. Of course a modern microcontroller does everything and much much more, but it is also extremely opaque, and even the ones considered “simple” nowadays might not be fully understandable in every single aspect by just a single person. Now, nothing prevents you from still using a 6502 based project for “real problems” as well, and it’s fun to use your pet project for something practical every once in a while, but that’s usually not the focus. The focus is learning, building, intentionally reinventing the wheel so to speak. In my previous comment to you, I mentioned how Ben Eater made a self-designed CPU in his excellent video series, before switching to the 6502 to explore higher abstraction layers. In that case it may be more obvious that the focus was on designing the CPU itself, not on any a priori application use case for it.