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> Generally agree with what you said, but "Cops are known to be abusive, violent thugs" is a terrible thing to say completely unqualified like that. That's tru

> Generally agree with what you said, but "Cops are known to be abusive, violent thugs" is a terrible thing to say completely unqualified like that. That's true, it should be qualified “within a subculture of violent thuggery, in organizations which lack any unifying focus other than the application of force, and which both protect them from and are themselves insulated from effective accountability for abuses.”

Ajedi32 2y ago
"Black people are abusive, violent thugs, within a subculture of violent thuggery, in cities which lack..." Maybe a bit better, but you're still overgeneralizing in order to demonize an entire group of people. If you want to talk about systemic issues in our policing system, then talk about those issues. Calling people groups derogatory names isn't constructive.
- genewitch 2y ago
  Cops aren't a marginalized group.
  - try_the_bass 2y ago
    Why is being a "marginalized group" relevant? And honestly, given the struggles police forces in the US are having with staffing, it does appear that cops are becoming increasingly marginalized. Especially since the primary driver behind the decline in recruitment seems to be the risk of social stigmatization.
    - genewitch 2y ago
      > the risk of social stigmatization. and who's fault is that?
      - try_the_bass 2y ago
        > and who's fault is that? I suspect people who overgeneralize in order to demonize an entire population have a hand in this. You didn't answer my question, either.
        kelnos 2y ago
        Or maybe there's something to the idea of police being a corrupt, rotten profession, full of people who either a) do violent, thuggish things, b) help cover up the abuses, or c) stand by quietly, too cowardly to ensure the awful ones among them face consequences for what they've done. I think police as a job, as it currently exists, absolutely should be socially stigmatized. They have the ability to clean up their act, and show that they are worthy of the power and authority we give them, but they choose not to.
        try_the_bass 2y ago
        Or maybe people like you just hate authority and will always portray anyone in positions of authority as being corrupt? Except if it was you in charge, of course? Like I asked you in a different reply: what's the prevalence rate of these bad behaviors? "Full of people" seems to imply that you think it's a majority? I can confidently state that you cannot back this up with evidence, because it appears the only evidence you have is anecdotal, and likely anecdotes you actively select for in order to feed your confirmation bias. I'll note that you didn't answer my question, either. Coordinated deflection like this is not a sign that you have a well-formed argument
        genewitch 2y ago
        define "anecdote" as it pertains to your argument - because i have literally hundreds of videos of police misconduct, from just 2020-2022. I stopped collecting them because i can't move the needle. here's where people go "oh but there's 800,000+ uniformed law enforcement in the US, and you have 100 videos, big whoop". How many videos would it take? We've only been able to really easily record the police doing misconduct for 15-20 years, depending on how you parse "easily record." So how many videos would it take? And of those videos, how many would i have to listen to someone say "the victim of police misconduct should have just [...]"? How many lawsuits against cities and departments would you need to read before it made a dent?
- BobaFloutist 2y ago
  People opt in to being cops. There's no way to opt into or out of being black.

Ajedi32 2y ago

"Black people are abusive, violent thugs, within a subculture of violent thuggery, in cities which lack..." Maybe a bit better, but you're still overgeneralizing in order to demonize an entire group of people. If you want to talk about systemic issues in our policing system, then talk about those issues. Calling people groups derogatory names isn't constructive.

genewitch 2y ago
Cops aren't a marginalized group.
- try_the_bass 2y ago
  Why is being a "marginalized group" relevant? And honestly, given the struggles police forces in the US are having with staffing, it does appear that cops are becoming increasingly marginalized. Especially since the primary driver behind the decline in recruitment seems to be the risk of social stigmatization.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    > the risk of social stigmatization. and who's fault is that?
    - try_the_bass 2y ago
      > and who's fault is that? I suspect people who overgeneralize in order to demonize an entire population have a hand in this. You didn't answer my question, either.
      - kelnos 2y ago
        Or maybe there's something to the idea of police being a corrupt, rotten profession, full of people who either a) do violent, thuggish things, b) help cover up the abuses, or c) stand by quietly, too cowardly to ensure the awful ones among them face consequences for what they've done. I think police as a job, as it currently exists, absolutely should be socially stigmatized. They have the ability to clean up their act, and show that they are worthy of the power and authority we give them, but they choose not to.
        try_the_bass 2y ago
        Or maybe people like you just hate authority and will always portray anyone in positions of authority as being corrupt? Except if it was you in charge, of course? Like I asked you in a different reply: what's the prevalence rate of these bad behaviors? "Full of people" seems to imply that you think it's a majority? I can confidently state that you cannot back this up with evidence, because it appears the only evidence you have is anecdotal, and likely anecdotes you actively select for in order to feed your confirmation bias. I'll note that you didn't answer my question, either. Coordinated deflection like this is not a sign that you have a well-formed argument
        genewitch 2y ago
        define "anecdote" as it pertains to your argument - because i have literally hundreds of videos of police misconduct, from just 2020-2022. I stopped collecting them because i can't move the needle. here's where people go "oh but there's 800,000+ uniformed law enforcement in the US, and you have 100 videos, big whoop". How many videos would it take? We've only been able to really easily record the police doing misconduct for 15-20 years, depending on how you parse "easily record." So how many videos would it take? And of those videos, how many would i have to listen to someone say "the victim of police misconduct should have just [...]"? How many lawsuits against cities and departments would you need to read before it made a dent?
BobaFloutist 2y ago
People opt in to being cops. There's no way to opt into or out of being black.