4 ms·

Lessons From Netflix

27 points by taylorbuley 14y ago

powerslave12r 14y ago
> It also doesn’t have rights issues. I'm not really sure what to make of this.
- jfb 14y ago
  Yeah, that jumped out at me, too. The reason the selection is so woeful is precisely "rights issues".
- bcrescimanno 14y ago
  I believe the "rights issues" he's talking about are explained in detail after that: he's talking about his own right to view the available content at any time. I agree that "rights issues" is probably the wrong way to explain that concept; but, as intended, it's a valid statement.
cletus 14y ago
While all this is true, there's more to it than that. Netflix caters to a market that lies between cable and iTunes/Amazon. It's a place to get second run or otherwise non-premium content. I've been rewatching Life recently, which I really liked (then and now). What's more, at $8/month it's low enough where I'll just have it just in case I want to watch it. I watch on average probably an hour of TV a day. Why would I pay $80+/month to have cable for this and then have the schedule dictated to me? Netflix can be watched on tablets, phones and computers. This is much better than the cable alternative. I don't even own a TV and don't think I ever will again. I'm a big fan of these "opinionated" services... as long as they get them right. This really is the key to Apple's success. 10+ years ago I wanted to dick around with installing hardware, drivers, configuring OSs, etc. Now? Now I just want stuff to work and nothing works as well or as pleasantly as my Macbook Air or iPad. But I digress. The sad thing about Netflix is that Hollywood seems to have decided they're the enemy now rather than seeing it as an opportunity to monetize content that otherwise would've probably earned them little or nothing. Worse, the content providers all seem to want to go out on their own, which is a terrible experience for consumers. If only there was legislated demarcation between content creation and content distribution.
kevincennis 14y ago
Lost me at "The UI is very well designed..."
- tsycho 14y ago
  Do you have specific complaints? I personally think the Netflix UI is significantly better than the UIs of Amazon or HBOGo. And on the Roku, it's orders of magnitude better.
  - trafficlight 14y ago
    For me it's not the UI, but the search and discovery features. Why can't I search for an actor's name?
    - pyoung 14y ago
      You can on the website.
  - kevincennis 14y ago
    Sure. The whole "hover your mouse over this arrow and we'll scroll the poster art at a rate of about 30px per second" is super frustrating. I actually ended up getting so annoyed that I built a Chrome extension to replace that interaction with horizontal scrollbars.
    - eswangren 14y ago
      +1 that was a horrible, horrible UI change. So much so that I wrote them an email just to complain about it. I don't know what they were thinking with that one.
  - jackalope 14y ago
    Most of the UIs show the same 30 or 40 movies, over and over again. It's especially difficult to discover anything new or specific on the Roku. A (truly) random selection button or category would be nice (one that ignores the suggestion algorithm). It's astonishing to see how many movies are available from Netflix when you visit a site like instantwatcher.com. You'd never know it from Netflix's own website.
samstave 14y ago
I LOVE Netflix. I have a 7.99 streaming account which is 90% used by my kids to stream movies to my iphone, play on the projector in the playroom, the blue-ray streamer upstairs and occasionally view on my laptop. While the content isn't terribly recent - my 7 Year Old doesn't notice or mind. One thing I am amazed at is how smooth and high quality Netflix streaming is over 3G to my phone. Youtube buffers even on my full broadband at home. (Youtube is hands down the worst video experience online, at this time). I will always have a netflix streaming account - I get so much value for my $7.99 a month. Also, I let me mom use my account to stream as well. Netflix is like the tortoise from the tortoise and the hair. Slowly and steadily setting up a rock solid amazing service. Youtube just raced forward as a video service got massive way too quickly now just has horrendous infrastructure and intrusive ads and totally broken keyboard controls. It is actually time for youtube to be disrupted. I am surprised apple has not taken on youtube yet, actually. (Again, I am comparing the streaming experience between youtube and netflix, not the content/business)
jellicle 14y ago
I have more or less the opposite opinion. Netflix's UI is terrible. Trying to decide what you want to see involves a full-text random search of your unindexed brain, followed by a title-only search on Netflix, followed by finding out the title you want isn't there. Repeat ad infinitum. Quick! Say out loud, right now, the name of a movie you want to see! Say it! Not one in theaters! Not one that came out within the last year! Something older than a year, that you didn't see but want to. Come on, clock's ticking. I'll bet you didn't say a name. That's a HARD task for humans, dredging up some movie name that you've only seen a few times in your life. You certainly can't use, say, advertising or current events to find a movie, because Netflix doesn't have any current movies. For anyone outside the U.S. there isn't even a queue feature, so there's absolutely no way to save a movie idea that you have now for later watching except by writing it down on a post-it note and sticking it to the television. Oh, and don't think about using it to watch porn or anything, since you can't disable or get rid of the RECENTLY WATCHED section which will reveal your TV-watching habits to anyone who might ever sit down at your TV or computer. And don't bother to make it compatible with Linux; people who are technically inclined enough to use this new-fangled "streaming" only use Windows or Mac. Several websites offer better experiences than Netflix (combining Rotten Tomatoes ratings; showing lists of new stuff Netflix just got in; that sort of thing). Netflix does not seem interested in stealing their ideas.
- jmduke 14y ago
  Wow, um. I have three use cases for Netflix: 1. Binging through a TV show (my most common case.) In which case I know exactly what I'm looking for. 2. Trying to find something random to watch, in which case the suggested recommendations are usually pretty great. Their system of identifying subsets of movies is infinitely more preferable than a massive funnel. 3. The "Hey, I want to watch this movie, lets see if its on Netflix" method, which I can't imagine getting any simpler; type it in, if its there -- perfect. I can't really comment on the Linux thing, since I don't use Linux (hell, 95% of the time I'm watching on my iPad or 360, not an actual computer) but the porn thing is pretty ridiculous, IMO. Netflix isn't trying to compete in the porn business.
- mnicole 14y ago
  We use it over XBL and the biggest problem we face (outside of the search/lack of content issue) is that if someone so much as accidentally knicks the controller, drops it on the ground or accidentally presses a button while moving it, it makes a transition without verification. Most of the time, the button accidentally pressed either starts the movie from the beginning or begins rewinding/forwarding the content. This is pretty terrible UX to begin with, but then on the UI side, there's no marker where that action started taking place or an "undo" function. This happens at least once every time we use the XBOX version, so we've taken to unplugging the controller entirely to avoid it.
adamio 14y ago
I wonder if Netflix's neglect to innovate in this area is a result of concentrating all their efforts on content. All the UI features in the world won't mean much if you lose all relevant content feeds. This also brings up time between search & view. In its DVD days, title search + recommendations may be good enough given the dvd queue dwell. But instant watch desires instant find. The content also affects this. Maybe with a heavy new release catalog - recommendations work for majority of users. With a deep archival catalog, better search works for majority of users?
- iamdave 14y ago
  I wonder if Netflix's neglect to innovate in this area is a result of concentrating all their efforts on content. Valid inquiry, imo. I think content is something Netflix rightfully should dedicate a contingent of resources to at multiple levels-licensing, sourcing and implementation. They have a model people are clearly buying into, and the catalog is getting better, but leaves much to the imagination. It'd be curious to see Wired or another magazine actually do the investigation to find out why so many studios are holding back from the platform.
  - pyoung 14y ago
    I am not sure an investigation is needed. It just comes down to money. Netflix doesn't want to raise rates (recall the huge backlash they received that last time they did that) and probably can't afford the license costs that are being demanded for premium content. Realistically, consumers need to realize that you get what you pay for. ~$8/month is less than the price of a single movie ticket, and much less than the cost to purchase a single movie on dvd. Premium cable costs 10x that amount and the on demand selection of movies are just as bad..
irishloop 14y ago
One thing I gotta say that a lot of Netflix bears really don't seem to get: it's not that easy to replicate how well Netflix just works. A lot of financial analysts believe that anybody from Time Warner or Walmart could just jump in and easily perform what Netflix has done. But if you've ever used Amazon Prime or HBO Go, you know it's actually significantly more complex than that, and Netflix has only made it LOOK easy. Whether or not that leads to long-term success, I don't know, but I do know that people seriously trivialize how difficult it is to stream tremendous amounts of high-quality traffic with very few hiccups.
eswangren 14y ago
NetflIx doesn't get new releases. I don't care why they don't, but the fact remains that they do not. I cancelled because of this. I really like NetFlix as a company, but the lack of selection kills it for me.
AWolk 14y ago
First off, thanks to all of you for breathing new life into something I wrote a couple weeks back. Netflix doesn't have a perfect interface, but it's leagues better than anything else that's out there, particularly the UIs provided by the cable.telco and satellite pay-TV providers (collectively known as MVPDs these days - Multichannel Video Platform Distributors) Seriously, if I set out to design a bad UI, I would not be able to surpass them in awfulness. I hear some of you are frustrated by the search and discovery functions. My company is in this space and we debate the best way to solve the 3 main use case scenarios: 1. I want to watch another 5 episodes of "Breaking Bad" 2. I want to watch a comedy movie, maybe something with Tom Hanks 3. I have no idea what I want to watch There's a lot of grey between those three areas and that's why Netflix quirky genre categories are so popular. In terms of search, there are a lot of 3rd party apps, both web-based and otherwise. I personally like Clicker, which is web-based and can also show you which of the services (Netfkix, Hulu, Amazon) you have can serve up the movie you want to watch. "Rights issues" is a TV/Movie industry term that refers to the battle over which of the various distribution companies has the right to broadcast TV and movie content, on what platform (e.g. If Comcast is paying NBC for the right to broadcast their shows on TV, do they have to pay more to also be able stream them to your iPad or is that covered by the original agreement) Because so much of this is new and because the industry is very profit-oriented, the lawyers are having a field day. Final point, which I noticed a few people picked up on, is that the Netflix all-you-can-eat menu lets you experiment without consequences: you don't like a movie, it's not like you've just wasted any money paying for it. And for the XBox remote dropper - if it's really become a problem, maybe you want to find another place to keep it? Just a suggestion.

27 points by taylorbuley 14y ago

powerslave12r 14y ago

> It also doesn’t have rights issues. I'm not really sure what to make of this.

jfb 14y ago
Yeah, that jumped out at me, too. The reason the selection is so woeful is precisely "rights issues".
bcrescimanno 14y ago
I believe the "rights issues" he's talking about are explained in detail after that: he's talking about his own right to view the available content at any time. I agree that "rights issues" is probably the wrong way to explain that concept; but, as intended, it's a valid statement.

cletus 14y ago

While all this is true, there's more to it than that. Netflix caters to a market that lies between cable and iTunes/Amazon. It's a place to get second run or otherwise non-premium content. I've been rewatching Life recently, which I really liked (then and now). What's more, at $8/month it's low enough where I'll just have it just in case I want to watch it. I watch on average probably an hour of TV a day. Why would I pay $80+/month to have cable for this and then have the schedule dictated to me? Netflix can be watched on tablets, phones and computers. This is much better than the cable alternative. I don't even own a TV and don't think I ever will again. I'm a big fan of these "opinionated" services... as long as they get them right. This really is the key to Apple's success. 10+ years ago I wanted to dick around with installing hardware, drivers, configuring OSs, etc. Now? Now I just want stuff to work and nothing works as well or as pleasantly as my Macbook Air or iPad. But I digress. The sad thing about Netflix is that Hollywood seems to have decided they're the enemy now rather than seeing it as an opportunity to monetize content that otherwise would've probably earned them little or nothing. Worse, the content providers all seem to want to go out on their own, which is a terrible experience for consumers. If only there was legislated demarcation between content creation and content distribution.

kevincennis 14y ago

Lost me at "The UI is very well designed..."

tsycho 14y ago
Do you have specific complaints? I personally think the Netflix UI is significantly better than the UIs of Amazon or HBOGo. And on the Roku, it's orders of magnitude better.
- trafficlight 14y ago
  For me it's not the UI, but the search and discovery features. Why can't I search for an actor's name?
  - pyoung 14y ago
    You can on the website.
- kevincennis 14y ago
  Sure. The whole "hover your mouse over this arrow and we'll scroll the poster art at a rate of about 30px per second" is super frustrating. I actually ended up getting so annoyed that I built a Chrome extension to replace that interaction with horizontal scrollbars.
  - eswangren 14y ago
    +1 that was a horrible, horrible UI change. So much so that I wrote them an email just to complain about it. I don't know what they were thinking with that one.
- jackalope 14y ago
  Most of the UIs show the same 30 or 40 movies, over and over again. It's especially difficult to discover anything new or specific on the Roku. A (truly) random selection button or category would be nice (one that ignores the suggestion algorithm). It's astonishing to see how many movies are available from Netflix when you visit a site like instantwatcher.com. You'd never know it from Netflix's own website.

samstave 14y ago

I LOVE Netflix. I have a 7.99 streaming account which is 90% used by my kids to stream movies to my iphone, play on the projector in the playroom, the blue-ray streamer upstairs and occasionally view on my laptop. While the content isn't terribly recent - my 7 Year Old doesn't notice or mind. One thing I am amazed at is how smooth and high quality Netflix streaming is over 3G to my phone. Youtube buffers even on my full broadband at home. (Youtube is hands down the worst video experience online, at this time). I will always have a netflix streaming account - I get so much value for my $7.99 a month. Also, I let me mom use my account to stream as well. Netflix is like the tortoise from the tortoise and the hair. Slowly and steadily setting up a rock solid amazing service. Youtube just raced forward as a video service got massive way too quickly now just has horrendous infrastructure and intrusive ads and totally broken keyboard controls. It is actually time for youtube to be disrupted. I am surprised apple has not taken on youtube yet, actually. (Again, I am comparing the streaming experience between youtube and netflix, not the content/business)

jellicle 14y ago

I have more or less the opposite opinion. Netflix's UI is terrible. Trying to decide what you want to see involves a full-text random search of your unindexed brain, followed by a title-only search on Netflix, followed by finding out the title you want isn't there. Repeat ad infinitum. Quick! Say out loud, right now, the name of a movie you want to see! Say it! Not one in theaters! Not one that came out within the last year! Something older than a year, that you didn't see but want to. Come on, clock's ticking. I'll bet you didn't say a name. That's a HARD task for humans, dredging up some movie name that you've only seen a few times in your life. You certainly can't use, say, advertising or current events to find a movie, because Netflix doesn't have any current movies. For anyone outside the U.S. there isn't even a queue feature, so there's absolutely no way to save a movie idea that you have now for later watching except by writing it down on a post-it note and sticking it to the television. Oh, and don't think about using it to watch porn or anything, since you can't disable or get rid of the RECENTLY WATCHED section which will reveal your TV-watching habits to anyone who might ever sit down at your TV or computer. And don't bother to make it compatible with Linux; people who are technically inclined enough to use this new-fangled "streaming" only use Windows or Mac. Several websites offer better experiences than Netflix (combining Rotten Tomatoes ratings; showing lists of new stuff Netflix just got in; that sort of thing). Netflix does not seem interested in stealing their ideas.

jmduke 14y ago
Wow, um. I have three use cases for Netflix: 1. Binging through a TV show (my most common case.) In which case I know exactly what I'm looking for. 2. Trying to find something random to watch, in which case the suggested recommendations are usually pretty great. Their system of identifying subsets of movies is infinitely more preferable than a massive funnel. 3. The "Hey, I want to watch this movie, lets see if its on Netflix" method, which I can't imagine getting any simpler; type it in, if its there -- perfect. I can't really comment on the Linux thing, since I don't use Linux (hell, 95% of the time I'm watching on my iPad or 360, not an actual computer) but the porn thing is pretty ridiculous, IMO. Netflix isn't trying to compete in the porn business.
mnicole 14y ago
We use it over XBL and the biggest problem we face (outside of the search/lack of content issue) is that if someone so much as accidentally knicks the controller, drops it on the ground or accidentally presses a button while moving it, it makes a transition without verification. Most of the time, the button accidentally pressed either starts the movie from the beginning or begins rewinding/forwarding the content. This is pretty terrible UX to begin with, but then on the UI side, there's no marker where that action started taking place or an "undo" function. This happens at least once every time we use the XBOX version, so we've taken to unplugging the controller entirely to avoid it.

adamio 14y ago

I wonder if Netflix's neglect to innovate in this area is a result of concentrating all their efforts on content. All the UI features in the world won't mean much if you lose all relevant content feeds. This also brings up time between search & view. In its DVD days, title search + recommendations may be good enough given the dvd queue dwell. But instant watch desires instant find. The content also affects this. Maybe with a heavy new release catalog - recommendations work for majority of users. With a deep archival catalog, better search works for majority of users?

iamdave 14y ago
I wonder if Netflix's neglect to innovate in this area is a result of concentrating all their efforts on content. Valid inquiry, imo. I think content is something Netflix rightfully should dedicate a contingent of resources to at multiple levels-licensing, sourcing and implementation. They have a model people are clearly buying into, and the catalog is getting better, but leaves much to the imagination. It'd be curious to see Wired or another magazine actually do the investigation to find out why so many studios are holding back from the platform.
- pyoung 14y ago
  I am not sure an investigation is needed. It just comes down to money. Netflix doesn't want to raise rates (recall the huge backlash they received that last time they did that) and probably can't afford the license costs that are being demanded for premium content. Realistically, consumers need to realize that you get what you pay for. ~$8/month is less than the price of a single movie ticket, and much less than the cost to purchase a single movie on dvd. Premium cable costs 10x that amount and the on demand selection of movies are just as bad..

irishloop 14y ago

One thing I gotta say that a lot of Netflix bears really don't seem to get: it's not that easy to replicate how well Netflix just works. A lot of financial analysts believe that anybody from Time Warner or Walmart could just jump in and easily perform what Netflix has done. But if you've ever used Amazon Prime or HBO Go, you know it's actually significantly more complex than that, and Netflix has only made it LOOK easy. Whether or not that leads to long-term success, I don't know, but I do know that people seriously trivialize how difficult it is to stream tremendous amounts of high-quality traffic with very few hiccups.

eswangren 14y ago

NetflIx doesn't get new releases. I don't care why they don't, but the fact remains that they do not. I cancelled because of this. I really like NetFlix as a company, but the lack of selection kills it for me.

AWolk 14y ago

First off, thanks to all of you for breathing new life into something I wrote a couple weeks back. Netflix doesn't have a perfect interface, but it's leagues better than anything else that's out there, particularly the UIs provided by the cable.telco and satellite pay-TV providers (collectively known as MVPDs these days - Multichannel Video Platform Distributors) Seriously, if I set out to design a bad UI, I would not be able to surpass them in awfulness. I hear some of you are frustrated by the search and discovery functions. My company is in this space and we debate the best way to solve the 3 main use case scenarios: 1. I want to watch another 5 episodes of "Breaking Bad" 2. I want to watch a comedy movie, maybe something with Tom Hanks 3. I have no idea what I want to watch There's a lot of grey between those three areas and that's why Netflix quirky genre categories are so popular. In terms of search, there are a lot of 3rd party apps, both web-based and otherwise. I personally like Clicker, which is web-based and can also show you which of the services (Netfkix, Hulu, Amazon) you have can serve up the movie you want to watch. "Rights issues" is a TV/Movie industry term that refers to the battle over which of the various distribution companies has the right to broadcast TV and movie content, on what platform (e.g. If Comcast is paying NBC for the right to broadcast their shows on TV, do they have to pay more to also be able stream them to your iPad or is that covered by the original agreement) Because so much of this is new and because the industry is very profit-oriented, the lawyers are having a field day. Final point, which I noticed a few people picked up on, is that the Netflix all-you-can-eat menu lets you experiment without consequences: you don't like a movie, it's not like you've just wasted any money paying for it. And for the XBox remote dropper - if it's really become a problem, maybe you want to find another place to keep it? Just a suggestion.