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Number plate cloning should be pretty easy to spot with a network of cameras. Same plate in two spots or seen in a distance impossible to travel in the time. A

Number plate cloning should be pretty easy to spot with a network of cameras. Same plate in two spots or seen in a distance impossible to travel in the time. And then police can be alerted every time they see a plate flagged as being cloned and either find a criminal, or be able to alert the person their plate is cloned.

shortercode 2y ago
My brother had his plates nicked a few years back. Apparently they had lightly modified his plate so that it appeared differently ( can’t recall if it was marker or tape )
HPsquared 2y ago
They'd presumably target cars that don't drive much. (btw anyone can check any car's annual mileage from the number plate using the MOT history lookup)
- gruez 2y ago
  >btw anyone can check any car's annual mileage from the number plate using the MOT history lookup Can this be done anonymously? Otherwise doing such a lookup creates a paper trail, which is generally bad if you're trying to commit any crime.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    What paper trail? All they can log is the IP address that made the query, and that's not enough to do anything with.
    - normie3000 2y ago
      That's why GP asked if the lookup was anonymous.
      - gambiting 2y ago
        it's as anonymous as searching any other information on government websites - you don't need to log in to do it.
        gruez 2y ago
        Depends on the jurisdiction, though. Federal court records are theoretically "on a government website", but you need a PACER account, which has your billing information.
        gambiting 2y ago
        Well, OP mentioned UK plate cloning so I was talking about how it works in the UK.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - cjs_ac 2y ago
    Yes, you just type the registration number into this form: https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ Not sure whether it's accessible outside the UK.
    - clort 2y ago
      I bought windscreen wipers for my car recently, the previous owner was my mother and the man in the shop said 'oh, 2018 was the last time they were replaced'. So, more information seems to be available to those who know.. (and, it was me who replaced the wiper blades then so I know it was right)
discretion22 2y ago
In theory, yes, but that's not how policing works. From personal knowledge of the UK setup, the goals are twofold, mass surveillance plus auto-revenue-generation (intended to raise sufficient to pay for the surveillance infrastructure to minimize the net cost which means auto issuing the absolute maximum number of tickets possible). Doing validation to ensure correctness of the tickets being issued would be counter-productive to the revenue generation goal; just because police have evidence a crime (like cloning) has happened, does not mean they will not issue the ticket. There is an onus in the UK for the registered keeper of the vehicle to incriminate themselves or someone else for road traffic offences (confirmed by test cases). Essentially you have to pay up or prove the cloning (and your innocence) yourself - very difficult because you do not have access to the surveillance database that would help you. The core objective of the police is to assert your guilt, not to provide you with any help for your defence.
- redeeman 2y ago
  and when this happens, it is proof of an illegitimate regime, not for the people, and as such it becomes morally and ethically justifiable to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING one deem required to demolish it, and bring the responsible parties to justice
  - pjc50 2y ago
    We're talking about speed cameras here, not deporting people to illegal prisons in El Salvador. Or even more basic civil liberties stuff like the use of face recognition against protestors. No, there's always a huge number of people that come out for the right to drive illegally fast instead.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Face recognition is constitutionally allowed in the USA, and the flip side is that protestors, or anyone, can also face-recognize the police, track then with ALPR, etc
- Ajedi32 2y ago
llm_nerd 2y ago
Cloning or just plate theft only works if you put the plate on the identical make, model and colour of vehicle, as many ALPRs are also quantifying the traits of the vehicle and a non-match raises a flag and will likely get extra scrutiny.
- dylan604 2y ago
  This does not sound like an egregious limiting factor at all.
  - llm_nerd 2y ago
    I didn't claim it was. But there is a big difference between "steal some plates from extended airport parking" and having to find and steal a plate specifically for the target vehicle. Obviously you could use the most common car and colour and make your task easier, but like for my SUV I see a similar colour / year / model on the roads maybe once a month. If I had to find another to steal or clone a plate it would legitimately be a pain.
    - Lanolderen 2y ago
      You could just go on your car sales website of choice and likely find the same car with the plates visible.
    - adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
      this is one of those areas where the fraud becomes much easier with scale. if you are trying to steel 1 plate for 1 car, this is a problem, but if you're trying to steal plates for 1000 cars, 1200 plates will match 800 cars
      - chuckadams 2y ago
        What kind of operation is stealing plates in bulk like that? My guess is none.
        2y ago

shortercode 2y ago

My brother had his plates nicked a few years back. Apparently they had lightly modified his plate so that it appeared differently ( can’t recall if it was marker or tape )

HPsquared 2y ago

They'd presumably target cars that don't drive much. (btw anyone can check any car's annual mileage from the number plate using the MOT history lookup)

gruez 2y ago
>btw anyone can check any car's annual mileage from the number plate using the MOT history lookup Can this be done anonymously? Otherwise doing such a lookup creates a paper trail, which is generally bad if you're trying to commit any crime.
- gambiting 2y ago
  What paper trail? All they can log is the IP address that made the query, and that's not enough to do anything with.
  - normie3000 2y ago
    That's why GP asked if the lookup was anonymous.
    - gambiting 2y ago
      it's as anonymous as searching any other information on government websites - you don't need to log in to do it.
      - gruez 2y ago
        Depends on the jurisdiction, though. Federal court records are theoretically "on a government website", but you need a PACER account, which has your billing information.
        gambiting 2y ago
        Well, OP mentioned UK plate cloning so I was talking about how it works in the UK.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- cjs_ac 2y ago
  Yes, you just type the registration number into this form: https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ Not sure whether it's accessible outside the UK.
  - clort 2y ago
    I bought windscreen wipers for my car recently, the previous owner was my mother and the man in the shop said 'oh, 2018 was the last time they were replaced'. So, more information seems to be available to those who know.. (and, it was me who replaced the wiper blades then so I know it was right)

discretion22 2y ago

In theory, yes, but that's not how policing works. From personal knowledge of the UK setup, the goals are twofold, mass surveillance plus auto-revenue-generation (intended to raise sufficient to pay for the surveillance infrastructure to minimize the net cost which means auto issuing the absolute maximum number of tickets possible). Doing validation to ensure correctness of the tickets being issued would be counter-productive to the revenue generation goal; just because police have evidence a crime (like cloning) has happened, does not mean they will not issue the ticket. There is an onus in the UK for the registered keeper of the vehicle to incriminate themselves or someone else for road traffic offences (confirmed by test cases). Essentially you have to pay up or prove the cloning (and your innocence) yourself - very difficult because you do not have access to the surveillance database that would help you. The core objective of the police is to assert your guilt, not to provide you with any help for your defence.

redeeman 2y ago
and when this happens, it is proof of an illegitimate regime, not for the people, and as such it becomes morally and ethically justifiable to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING one deem required to demolish it, and bring the responsible parties to justice
- pjc50 2y ago
  We're talking about speed cameras here, not deporting people to illegal prisons in El Salvador. Or even more basic civil liberties stuff like the use of face recognition against protestors. No, there's always a huge number of people that come out for the right to drive illegally fast instead.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Face recognition is constitutionally allowed in the USA, and the flip side is that protestors, or anyone, can also face-recognize the police, track then with ALPR, etc
Ajedi32 2y ago

llm_nerd 2y ago

Cloning or just plate theft only works if you put the plate on the identical make, model and colour of vehicle, as many ALPRs are also quantifying the traits of the vehicle and a non-match raises a flag and will likely get extra scrutiny.

dylan604 2y ago
This does not sound like an egregious limiting factor at all.
- llm_nerd 2y ago
  I didn't claim it was. But there is a big difference between "steal some plates from extended airport parking" and having to find and steal a plate specifically for the target vehicle. Obviously you could use the most common car and colour and make your task easier, but like for my SUV I see a similar colour / year / model on the roads maybe once a month. If I had to find another to steal or clone a plate it would legitimately be a pain.
  - Lanolderen 2y ago
    You could just go on your car sales website of choice and likely find the same car with the plates visible.
  - adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
    this is one of those areas where the fraud becomes much easier with scale. if you are trying to steel 1 plate for 1 car, this is a problem, but if you're trying to steal plates for 1000 cars, 1200 plates will match 800 cars
    - chuckadams 2y ago
      What kind of operation is stealing plates in bulk like that? My guess is none.
      - 2y ago