4 ms·

I've seen this done before by journalists requesting license plate reader data but it's another nail in the coffin of anonymity. Dare I say unless you wear a fu

I've seen this done before by journalists requesting license plate reader data but it's another nail in the coffin of anonymity. Dare I say unless you wear a full face mask, change your walking gait, and just about every habit you have, there is no escape. In television I've seen talk about masks and garments that help prevent this, but I think it's a zero sum game. You will be tracked. You will be photographed, profiled, analyzed and that data is likely sold to the highest bidder and it's only accelerating.

ryandvm 2y ago
> Dare I say unless you wear a full face mask, change your walking gait, and just about every habit you have, there is no escape. Lol. Nobody will be able to track me as the guy crab-walking in a sumo suit wearing the Unabomber disguise.
- Molitor5901 2y ago
  I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but the fact you would be wthe guy " crab-walking in a sumo suit wearing the Unabomber disguise" is probably going to draw even more attention. Like the tesla vandals. The cameras will simply follow you back to your car, home, business, wherever you went to take off that costume, then really zero in on you because you went and did what the police might term as "weird."
  - anonym29 2y ago
    I believe the parent poster was suggesting this as a joke. Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1105/ https://xkcd.com/1105/
    - ta1243 2y ago
      And of course the reality https://www.wired.com/story/null-license-plate-landed-one-hacker-ticket-hell/ https://www.wired.com/story/null-license-plate-landed-one-ha...
      - aftbit 2y ago
        >[Christopher Null] has himself had to deal with countless annoyances, from American Express dropping his last name altogether, to Bank of America refusing to accept emails from his "nullmedia.com" domain. I believe the first one but likely BofA refusing to accept emails from his custom domain has nothing to do with it starting with null and everything to do with anti-spam.
      - anonym29 2y ago
        Non-paywall version: https://archive.is/R1FMz https://archive.is/R1FMz
  - mingus88 2y ago
    A recent event in midtown manhattan shows it’s pretty easy to evade surveillance if you can avoid using a car for a brief period of time. Didn’t he get away on a bike into a park? In that case the police had a Starbucks register photo with a face, but that kind of slip can also be easily avoided
    - fn-mote 2y ago
      > that kind of slip can also be easily avoided That PARTICULAR slip can be avoided. Avoiding all slips is equivalent to airtight OpSec, which more people on this platform are familiar with (= not happening).
- tstrimple 2y ago
  They are way ahead of you in Turkey. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2025/03/27/pikachu-inflatable-turkey-protests/82694021007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2025/03/27/pikachu...
tyingq 2y ago
Feels like it's also going to be handy for selective prosecution. Say you're targeted for public speech someone doesn't like. Now they can try and draw some link between your travels and some unsolved crime. Even if it's a weak link, and they can't win in court...the bar for arrest is pretty low. And, a bit of a reach, but it's also some of the foundation for "pre-crime" type stuff. "You've exhibited patterns of comings and goings that suggest..."
- Molitor5901 2y ago
  I'm more pessimistic. With available AI you can take video of someone, extract that human profile and characteristics, and then insert it into another one. It only takes that one visit to your office "We have video of you sneaking into an elementary school bathroom" to totally ruin your life, and even if you could prove it wasn't you and was doctored, the damage is still done. It's worse than selective prosecution
- paganel 2y ago
  Person of Interest was such a great TV show! Too bad many of the things in there came out to be true, or very close to true, in just a matter of 10-15 years.
  - tyingq 2y ago
    Ah, hadn't seen it. I was thinking Minority Report, but skimming Person of Interest summaries..yes, similar.
  - thesuitonym 2y ago
    I'm not familiar with the show, but dystopian science fiction doesn't predict the future, it criticizes the present.
- banku_brougham 2y ago
  "...first of all they must be arrested and brought before the court, and the [criminal code] articles will be found" - Molotov, June 14, 1940
- 2y ago
anonym29 2y ago
I have bad news for you. The data is not only being sold to the highest bidder, much of it is being sold repeatedly to just about any bidder.
TeMPOraL 2y ago
"You are being watched. The government has a secret system, a system you asked for, to keep you safe. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. You've granted it the power to see everything, to index, order and control the lives of ordinary people. The government considers these people irrelevant. We don't. But to it, you are all irrelevant. Victim or perpetrator, if you stand in its way, we'll find you." Person of Interest continues to be prescient.
- roxolotl 2y ago
  I'm actively watching it for the first time and this part: "a system you asked for, to keep you safe." I don't recognize. Looked into it a bit and it started out and only the last season has all of what you quoted. It's been really interesting watching the show evolve knowing what was happening in the world at the time. I'm currently on season 3 and they are starting to change the tone now that the Snowden leak has happened. It starts out as: "You are being watched. The government has a secret system — a machine — that spies on you every hour of every day. I know, because I built it. I designed the machine to detect acts of terror, but it sees everything. Violent crimes involving ordinary people. People like you. Crimes the government considered irrelevant. They wouldn't act, so I decided I would. But I needed a partner, someone with the skills to intervene. Hunted by the authorities, we work in secret. You'll never find us. But, victim or perpetrator, if your number's up, we'll find you." So over the course of 5 years it morphs from "I know because I built it." to "A system you asked for, to keep you safe."
  - tredre3 2y ago
    The show's (or at least its protagonists') motivations change a lot over the years. As Finch's own motivations evolve, you can see him shift the blame from the government, to the people, to the machine itself. There are some bouts of introspection, especially early on, which he uses as justification for installing the backdoor in the first place, but on the whole he's adamant that none of this is his fault. That's probably exactly how it will play out in our world too, when a tech billionaire plugs a self-aware AI to our global surveillance network.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> unless you wear a full face mask, change your walking gait, and just about every habit you have, there is no escape If you’re driving a car, yes. As we saw with Mangione’s escape, if you’re on public transit you’re much more anonymous. (Given the public risks inherent to driving, I think this is a fair trade—off.)
- dingnuts 2y ago
  You mean the shooter's escape. Mangione is pretty obviously being framed, c'mon
- bluGill 2y ago
  There are cameras all over public transit systems. License plates are easier to track (they have a known font so identifying a unique one is easier that a face), but not by enough to matter. If you leave one camera you will show up in the next and soon they get enough of a profile to identify you if they want to.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    They frequently don’t work [1]. Again, we have a real-life example of someone using the reality of how surveillance is weighted to escape Manhattan, one of the more surveilled parts of the country. [1] https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-shooting-subway-cameras-7-on-your-side/11745041/ https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-shooting-subway-cameras-7-on-you...
- probably_wrong 2y ago
  While I agree with your point about public transit being a bit more anonymous, I feel I should point out that a. Mangione was still captured, and b. thanks (allegedly) to a combination of multiple surveillance photos of him with a mask plus a single picture of his full face. "No escape" sounds still right.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  He was anonymous for what, 8hr? and it took massive investment. That's not tractable at scale.
yread 2y ago
> walking gait so you're saying that if we cycle everywhere on a non-descript black Dutch fiets we're safe ?
- Molitor5901 2y ago
  Nope. They use cameras to analyze cyclists who race to make sure their form is on top. You have a cycling gait the same as your walking gait - the way you sit in the saddle, pedal, hang on to the handlebars, sit, etc. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10345980 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10345980
bryancoxwell 2y ago
I don’t disagree with you but I’m also not entirely sold on the idea that surveillance cameras alone are all that effective at tracking and identifying people. Think of the person that left two pipe bombs outside the RNC and DNC offices in Washington, DC, probably the most heavily surveilled city in the United States. It’s been 4 years and we still have no idea who that was.
- whatevertrevor 2y ago
  One could say that is an even stronger argument against them. People are losing their privacy for very little gain if these things aren't even effective at solving precisely this sort of premeditated criminal activity.
  - bryancoxwell 2y ago
    Yeah I’d agree with that as well
BurningFrog 2y ago
The cost of cameras and disk space is very low, and rapidly approaching zero. I think that means it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about anonymity in public places. We're already almost always seen by several cameras, and it will soon be 10x as much.
ur-whale 2y ago
> You will be tracked For a peek at what you can expect, take a look at Saudi Arabia, where your bank account gets blocked until your traffic violation fine (usually issued electronically within minutes of the actual deed) is fully paid. Or at China, where you "social score", more or less calculated automatically, decides in a fairly fine-grained manner what you are and are not allowed to do in society. These will be become the social norm in the West as well, just a matter of time and getting the herd to consider it "normal" (usually takes a generation, 20-ish years).

ryandvm 2y ago

> Dare I say unless you wear a full face mask, change your walking gait, and just about every habit you have, there is no escape. Lol. Nobody will be able to track me as the guy crab-walking in a sumo suit wearing the Unabomber disguise.

Molitor5901 2y ago
I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but the fact you would be wthe guy " crab-walking in a sumo suit wearing the Unabomber disguise" is probably going to draw even more attention. Like the tesla vandals. The cameras will simply follow you back to your car, home, business, wherever you went to take off that costume, then really zero in on you because you went and did what the police might term as "weird."
- anonym29 2y ago
  I believe the parent poster was suggesting this as a joke. Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1105/ https://xkcd.com/1105/
  - ta1243 2y ago
    And of course the reality https://www.wired.com/story/null-license-plate-landed-one-hacker-ticket-hell/ https://www.wired.com/story/null-license-plate-landed-one-ha...
    - aftbit 2y ago
      >[Christopher Null] has himself had to deal with countless annoyances, from American Express dropping his last name altogether, to Bank of America refusing to accept emails from his "nullmedia.com" domain. I believe the first one but likely BofA refusing to accept emails from his custom domain has nothing to do with it starting with null and everything to do with anti-spam.
    - anonym29 2y ago
      Non-paywall version: https://archive.is/R1FMz https://archive.is/R1FMz
- mingus88 2y ago
  A recent event in midtown manhattan shows it’s pretty easy to evade surveillance if you can avoid using a car for a brief period of time. Didn’t he get away on a bike into a park? In that case the police had a Starbucks register photo with a face, but that kind of slip can also be easily avoided
  - fn-mote 2y ago
    > that kind of slip can also be easily avoided That PARTICULAR slip can be avoided. Avoiding all slips is equivalent to airtight OpSec, which more people on this platform are familiar with (= not happening).
tstrimple 2y ago
They are way ahead of you in Turkey. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2025/03/27/pikachu-inflatable-turkey-protests/82694021007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2025/03/27/pikachu...

tyingq 2y ago

Feels like it's also going to be handy for selective prosecution. Say you're targeted for public speech someone doesn't like. Now they can try and draw some link between your travels and some unsolved crime. Even if it's a weak link, and they can't win in court...the bar for arrest is pretty low. And, a bit of a reach, but it's also some of the foundation for "pre-crime" type stuff. "You've exhibited patterns of comings and goings that suggest..."

Molitor5901 2y ago
I'm more pessimistic. With available AI you can take video of someone, extract that human profile and characteristics, and then insert it into another one. It only takes that one visit to your office "We have video of you sneaking into an elementary school bathroom" to totally ruin your life, and even if you could prove it wasn't you and was doctored, the damage is still done. It's worse than selective prosecution
paganel 2y ago
Person of Interest was such a great TV show! Too bad many of the things in there came out to be true, or very close to true, in just a matter of 10-15 years.
- tyingq 2y ago
  Ah, hadn't seen it. I was thinking Minority Report, but skimming Person of Interest summaries..yes, similar.
- thesuitonym 2y ago
  I'm not familiar with the show, but dystopian science fiction doesn't predict the future, it criticizes the present.
banku_brougham 2y ago
"...first of all they must be arrested and brought before the court, and the [criminal code] articles will be found" - Molotov, June 14, 1940
2y ago

anonym29 2y ago

I have bad news for you. The data is not only being sold to the highest bidder, much of it is being sold repeatedly to just about any bidder.

TeMPOraL 2y ago

"You are being watched. The government has a secret system, a system you asked for, to keep you safe. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. You've granted it the power to see everything, to index, order and control the lives of ordinary people. The government considers these people irrelevant. We don't. But to it, you are all irrelevant. Victim or perpetrator, if you stand in its way, we'll find you." Person of Interest continues to be prescient.

roxolotl 2y ago
I'm actively watching it for the first time and this part: "a system you asked for, to keep you safe." I don't recognize. Looked into it a bit and it started out and only the last season has all of what you quoted. It's been really interesting watching the show evolve knowing what was happening in the world at the time. I'm currently on season 3 and they are starting to change the tone now that the Snowden leak has happened. It starts out as: "You are being watched. The government has a secret system — a machine — that spies on you every hour of every day. I know, because I built it. I designed the machine to detect acts of terror, but it sees everything. Violent crimes involving ordinary people. People like you. Crimes the government considered irrelevant. They wouldn't act, so I decided I would. But I needed a partner, someone with the skills to intervene. Hunted by the authorities, we work in secret. You'll never find us. But, victim or perpetrator, if your number's up, we'll find you." So over the course of 5 years it morphs from "I know because I built it." to "A system you asked for, to keep you safe."
- tredre3 2y ago
  The show's (or at least its protagonists') motivations change a lot over the years. As Finch's own motivations evolve, you can see him shift the blame from the government, to the people, to the machine itself. There are some bouts of introspection, especially early on, which he uses as justification for installing the backdoor in the first place, but on the whole he's adamant that none of this is his fault. That's probably exactly how it will play out in our world too, when a tech billionaire plugs a self-aware AI to our global surveillance network.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> unless you wear a full face mask, change your walking gait, and just about every habit you have, there is no escape If you’re driving a car, yes. As we saw with Mangione’s escape, if you’re on public transit you’re much more anonymous. (Given the public risks inherent to driving, I think this is a fair trade—off.)

dingnuts 2y ago
You mean the shooter's escape. Mangione is pretty obviously being framed, c'mon
bluGill 2y ago
There are cameras all over public transit systems. License plates are easier to track (they have a known font so identifying a unique one is easier that a face), but not by enough to matter. If you leave one camera you will show up in the next and soon they get enough of a profile to identify you if they want to.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  They frequently don’t work [1]. Again, we have a real-life example of someone using the reality of how surveillance is weighted to escape Manhattan, one of the more surveilled parts of the country. [1] https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-shooting-subway-cameras-7-on-your-side/11745041/ https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-shooting-subway-cameras-7-on-you...
probably_wrong 2y ago
While I agree with your point about public transit being a bit more anonymous, I feel I should point out that a. Mangione was still captured, and b. thanks (allegedly) to a combination of multiple surveillance photos of him with a mask plus a single picture of his full face. "No escape" sounds still right.
potato3732842 2y ago
He was anonymous for what, 8hr? and it took massive investment. That's not tractable at scale.

yread 2y ago

> walking gait so you're saying that if we cycle everywhere on a non-descript black Dutch fiets we're safe ?

Molitor5901 2y ago
Nope. They use cameras to analyze cyclists who race to make sure their form is on top. You have a cycling gait the same as your walking gait - the way you sit in the saddle, pedal, hang on to the handlebars, sit, etc. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10345980 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10345980

bryancoxwell 2y ago

I don’t disagree with you but I’m also not entirely sold on the idea that surveillance cameras alone are all that effective at tracking and identifying people. Think of the person that left two pipe bombs outside the RNC and DNC offices in Washington, DC, probably the most heavily surveilled city in the United States. It’s been 4 years and we still have no idea who that was.

whatevertrevor 2y ago
One could say that is an even stronger argument against them. People are losing their privacy for very little gain if these things aren't even effective at solving precisely this sort of premeditated criminal activity.
- bryancoxwell 2y ago
  Yeah I’d agree with that as well

BurningFrog 2y ago

The cost of cameras and disk space is very low, and rapidly approaching zero. I think that means it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about anonymity in public places. We're already almost always seen by several cameras, and it will soon be 10x as much.

ur-whale 2y ago

> You will be tracked For a peek at what you can expect, take a look at Saudi Arabia, where your bank account gets blocked until your traffic violation fine (usually issued electronically within minutes of the actual deed) is fully paid. Or at China, where you "social score", more or less calculated automatically, decides in a fairly fine-grained manner what you are and are not allowed to do in society. These will be become the social norm in the West as well, just a matter of time and getting the herd to consider it "normal" (usually takes a generation, 20-ish years).