3 ms·

I'm intrigued. I'm currently working on some research into the same topic, but mostly through the lens of the concessions made by these "new" ways of thought (C

by z3c0 2y ago

I'm intrigued. I'm currently working on some research into the same topic, but mostly through the lens of the concessions made by these "new" ways of thought (Communism/Bolshevism and Nazism/Volkism) to older systems of power. For example, Nazis abandoned all semblance of "socialism" by essentially handing Germany over to industrialists as a means to save the then-struggling economy. On the other side, Bolsheviks resurrected the practices of the Okhrana, the tsarist secret police, as a means of stomping out dissent. This would give way to organizations like the KGB. These two populist movements were meant to deconstruct power, but instead gave way to even more terrifying tyranny. The more I study the continuous reform/reaction that occurred in the last years of Tsarist Russia, I can't help but notice how hard the pendulum is beginning to swing here in the States.

Muromec 2y ago
>These two populist movements were meant to deconstruct power, but instead gave way to even more terrifying tyranny Where they truly populist and where they about deconstructing power? soviet communists where about radical transformative changes to all of the societies and explicitly accepted that violence is necessary to perform those transformations (i.e. goals justify the means). If your agenda is deeply transformative and you have vocal oppositions you either abandon the agenda (soften it, extend the timeframe, etc) or force this through. That's what is scary about all the politicians with grand designs -- them turning out to be corrupt schmuk is the best outcome. Actually following through on all of that is scary.
- z3c0 2y ago
  Bolshevism and Volkism indeed have roots in populism, though, to your point, their institutional counterparts arguably were the exact opposite. Bolshevism is only one prevailing school of thought from late 19th/early 20th century Russia, but walking back through Narodnaya Volya and the Narodniks will lead you back to Going to the People. Volkism itself may be one of the best examples of unbridled populism ever, having posited that "true" Germans were being overrun by alien elites (Jewish folk and the like). The fact that the movement was leveraged by neo-pagan Bavarian aristocrats doesn't nullify the ideas that rallied the public behind them in the first place (especially when those ideas persist today).
hayst4ck 2y ago
You will love Snyder. He has hours of talks/lectures on youtube that are all worth watching. One talk he gave was on How could the holocaust have happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsKrWLf7Kg4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsKrWLf7Kg4
- z3c0 2y ago
  This is exactly what I was hoping to find in this thread. Thanks for the additional content.

by z3c0 2y ago

Muromec 2y ago

>These two populist movements were meant to deconstruct power, but instead gave way to even more terrifying tyranny Where they truly populist and where they about deconstructing power? soviet communists where about radical transformative changes to all of the societies and explicitly accepted that violence is necessary to perform those transformations (i.e. goals justify the means). If your agenda is deeply transformative and you have vocal oppositions you either abandon the agenda (soften it, extend the timeframe, etc) or force this through. That's what is scary about all the politicians with grand designs -- them turning out to be corrupt schmuk is the best outcome. Actually following through on all of that is scary.

z3c0 2y ago
Bolshevism and Volkism indeed have roots in populism, though, to your point, their institutional counterparts arguably were the exact opposite. Bolshevism is only one prevailing school of thought from late 19th/early 20th century Russia, but walking back through Narodnaya Volya and the Narodniks will lead you back to Going to the People. Volkism itself may be one of the best examples of unbridled populism ever, having posited that "true" Germans were being overrun by alien elites (Jewish folk and the like). The fact that the movement was leveraged by neo-pagan Bavarian aristocrats doesn't nullify the ideas that rallied the public behind them in the first place (especially when those ideas persist today).

hayst4ck 2y ago

You will love Snyder. He has hours of talks/lectures on youtube that are all worth watching. One talk he gave was on How could the holocaust have happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsKrWLf7Kg4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsKrWLf7Kg4

z3c0 2y ago
This is exactly what I was hoping to find in this thread. Thanks for the additional content.