5 ms·

I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. I'm not taking my kids to a nightclub to play

by talmand 14y ago

I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. I'm not taking my kids to a nightclub to play arcade games but one or two they mention would be worthy. Although it is nice to see interest in having arcade machines in some form so maybe it'll kick off interest in proper arcades. From my experience, being someone that spent a great deal of time in arcades as a kid, that the arcade industry practically killed itself. True, consoles were a big competitor but there was nothing like getting in that line to put your token on the machine. Consoles is just friends having fun, arcades were friends and strangers competing. Totally different experience. But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price. The next thing you knew those were the only choices you had. I stopped going at that point. This interest in the retro games that are classic standup machines seems to suggest people just wanted what they had in the first place.

deveac 14y ago
>I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. Agree. They are arcade-themed bars. They admit in the article that the revenue stream from their arcade games can't pay for the game and let them even come close to staying in business. They sell beer, food, music, and dancing using arcade inspired nostalgia as a hook. >True, consoles were a big competitor but there was nothing like getting in that line to put your token on the machine. Disagree here. There was something like putting your token on your machine, except better. Having the machine in your living room, with arcade quality graphics. I don't believe that arcades could have simply kept their prices lower and still remained competitive. The cost of their new machines increases over time, as does rent and all of their other bills. I am certain that the increase in price they charged was purely a function of their costs, especially as it happened across the industry as a whole. Edit: Incidentally, the misconception in the second line of yours that I quoted is the purest and most distilled expression of your first point. Nostalgia is a powerful force eh? ;)
- talmand 14y ago
  For the second quote you go off on a tangent about costs. I'm just saying that sitting on the couch at home with your friends is not the same experience as putting your money on the machine to compete against someone you may not know. If you prefer the home environment with your friends then that's cool. I for one preferred the competition to be had at the local arcade. I agree to a point with your thought on the costs. But to me a good bit of that is the fact they kept using more and more expensive machines that required an increase in pricing. There's no way someone can tell me that a classic stand up machine with a PC in the cabinet costs as much to buy/maintain as those huge behemoth cockpit games. These new machines may have been an attempt to counter consoles since most people will not put a race car cockpit game in their home, but for the most part were boring. Who wants to rock a fake horse forwards and backwards in a crappy rendition of a horse race? If the industry, in the US for me, had stayed away from that nonsense then I would have gladly gone to the arcade despite having a nice console at home. Right now I would love to be able to take my kids to an arcade like I remember having fun in despite having a nice console at home. But those arcades hardly exist any more. Even in local bowling alleys they have those stupid cockpit games.
  - deveac 14y ago
    >For the second quote you go off on a tangent about costs. Tanjent? That's funny. I was responding directly to your citing cost as a factor for arcades dying: >But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price. It's right there. >There's no way someone can tell me that a classic stand up machine with a PC in the cabinet costs as much to buy/maintain as those huge behemoth cockpit games. These new machines may have been an attempt to counter consoles since most people will not put a race car cockpit game in their home, but for the most part were boring. Who wants to rock a fake horse forwards and backwards in a crappy rendition of a horse race? If this were true, then we would have arcades with lower end, more cost efficient games instead of the ones you're pointing out. But we don't. I submit that it isn't because every single former arcade owner individually misjudged the market and stocked the wrong machines in their retail space. >If the industry, in the US for me, had stayed away from that nonsense then I would have gladly gone to the arcade despite having a nice console at home. On this, I also humbly submit that you are in the extreme minority.
hkmurakami 14y ago
I agree, this reminds me of those new-age bowling alleys complete with night-club-like lighting, bar, and even a "no white shirts" rule. I never felt comfortable in one of those, and always preferred to go to the run down, crappy bowling alleys. Oh how I miss Mel's Bowl in Redwood City :(.
tankbot 14y ago
> those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. No, these are definitely arcades that happen to serve adult beverages. I've only been to a few such places, so my experience is anecdotal, but the games are not 'spread throughout', they are packed into every square inch of available space. (with drink holders!) Dave and Busters or some similar establishment probably qualifies as what you are describing, but I've never been so can't really say. > But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price. You're right about the industry killing itself though, and it happened exactly how you say. The folks running the companies saw $ and forgot their core audience. Arcades were about putting your quarter up next and then schooling some cocky punk in Tekken, not paying $5 for an interactive single player movie where you can sort-of shoot some barrels or dinosaurs. Anyway, these new places aren't for kids, they're for people like me (us?) who grew up with arcades but now love beer. And it's great!
- talmand 14y ago
  From my experience Dave & Busters depends solely on your local spot. I've been in good and bad ones so you just have to try them out. The local one for me these days isn't so bad and I have taken my older kid to it for food and games. But they still have too many cockpit games. At least most of them are race related which does make sense. But they really need to get rid of that eight cockpit Sega Nascar game from like twenty years ago. My phone has better graphics.
mindcrime 14y ago
I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. Not all of them. From TFA: But the recent boom in arcade openings isn't just among places that use games as an excuse to serve alcohol. "Our intention was more to be a resource for young people in the community," said Jeromy Darling, who opened ZAP arcade in the Minneapolis suburb of Jordan as a way to keep the town's young people occupied. "There's really nothing for youth there. There's a water tower, a lake, a creek... it's small. That was really our intention when we opened, to be a safe resource for kids, to offer something in the community that was just sort of cheap fun." I'm not taking my kids to a nightclub to play arcade games but one or two they mention would be worthy. Although it is nice to see interest in having arcade machines in some form so maybe it'll kick off interest in proper arcades. Yeah, sounds like there are already some family friendly ones... hopefully more will emerge.
Zimahl 14y ago
I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. I live in Portland and we have a fairly well known 'barcade' called Ground Kontrol. The games aren't spread out at all, there's barely room to move. When the lights are down and the blacklights are up, it's about as close as you can get to Flynn's Arcade[1]. From opening until 5pm every day, it's all ages. But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price. The 2+ quarter games were an issue, but our mall arcade died out when it turned into a 'fun center' and they replaced a lot of the games with skill machines for tickets/prizes. I'm sure this was more profitable but boring as hell. [1] http://groundkontrol.com/arcade/ http://groundkontrol.com/arcade/
fuzzythinker 14y ago
I disagree with your arcade death reason by the 2x price. According to [1], arcades had started costing a $.25 USD since 1966. By standard rate of inflation of ~3.4% [2], that means it should cost approximately $1.50 USD today. One argument to this is rather the starting basis of $.25 is the right price. According to the same source, the golden age of arcade is ~1980. So for the sake of finding a lower optimal basis, let's assume that $.25 is the optimal pricing in 1980. Which means arcade games should cost ~$.75 to play today. Now the question becomes rather games should accept coins other than quarters so the pricing isn't such a steep step function, or game creators needed to start making games to justify 2x pricing. I guess they decided on the latter. So I totally disagree with this assessment. I would say the consoles offering an alternative to arcade games at a reasonable price is the main reason. Yes, I agree with you that it's a totally different experience, but maybe not enough to stop going to the arcades when one can play for "free" at home or friends' house. This is the first step in killing the arcades. The second step is the internet and portable gaming/mobile as an alternate pastime for kids. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_game [2] http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/long_term_inflation.asp http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/long_term_... (not sure the credibility of the site, but I'm sure the average inflation rate in US isn't too much different)
- talmand 14y ago
  I'm sure your right in many ways, but I'm talking about the day that I had a choice between a 50 cent game (up from 25 which I was fine with) to a $1+ game in the same arcade on the same day, not over time. The $1+ game did not seem to be twice the fun. Then one day the 50 cent game was gone and all I had to choose from were the more expensive machines. At that point I stopped going. Granted, this is my experience and should be taken as such.
- protomyth 14y ago
  Looking at the competition for time today, many games on devices are $0.99 USD. A $1.50 USD game better be a heck of a cool experience. For my part, I stopped going to arcades when the price went over $0.50 USD. It was more fun just to rent some games for the weekend.
reddiric 14y ago
The article didn't talk about Seattle specifically, but we have five major pinball/arcade destinations. Shorty's in Belltown - a bar with 16 pinball machines and 13 arcade machines Narwhal in Capital Hill - a bar with 8 pinball machines and many arcade games Full Tilt Ice Cream - an Ice Cream parlor in Ballard with 13 pinball machines and several arcade games Seattle Pinball Museum - an arcade in the International District with 31 new and classic pinball machines Add-a-Ball - a bar in Fremont with 11 pinball machines As well as several other restaurants / bars / arcades / game shops with several pinball and arcade games. At least in Seattle, we do have many arcade destinations.

by talmand 14y ago

deveac 14y ago

>I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. Agree. They are arcade-themed bars. They admit in the article that the revenue stream from their arcade games can't pay for the game and let them even come close to staying in business. They sell beer, food, music, and dancing using arcade inspired nostalgia as a hook. >True, consoles were a big competitor but there was nothing like getting in that line to put your token on the machine. Disagree here. There was something like putting your token on your machine, except better. Having the machine in your living room, with arcade quality graphics. I don't believe that arcades could have simply kept their prices lower and still remained competitive. The cost of their new machines increases over time, as does rent and all of their other bills. I am certain that the increase in price they charged was purely a function of their costs, especially as it happened across the industry as a whole. Edit: Incidentally, the misconception in the second line of yours that I quoted is the purest and most distilled expression of your first point. Nostalgia is a powerful force eh? ;)

talmand 14y ago
For the second quote you go off on a tangent about costs. I'm just saying that sitting on the couch at home with your friends is not the same experience as putting your money on the machine to compete against someone you may not know. If you prefer the home environment with your friends then that's cool. I for one preferred the competition to be had at the local arcade. I agree to a point with your thought on the costs. But to me a good bit of that is the fact they kept using more and more expensive machines that required an increase in pricing. There's no way someone can tell me that a classic stand up machine with a PC in the cabinet costs as much to buy/maintain as those huge behemoth cockpit games. These new machines may have been an attempt to counter consoles since most people will not put a race car cockpit game in their home, but for the most part were boring. Who wants to rock a fake horse forwards and backwards in a crappy rendition of a horse race? If the industry, in the US for me, had stayed away from that nonsense then I would have gladly gone to the arcade despite having a nice console at home. Right now I would love to be able to take my kids to an arcade like I remember having fun in despite having a nice console at home. But those arcades hardly exist any more. Even in local bowling alleys they have those stupid cockpit games.
- deveac 14y ago
  >For the second quote you go off on a tangent about costs. Tanjent? That's funny. I was responding directly to your citing cost as a factor for arcades dying: >But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price. It's right there. >There's no way someone can tell me that a classic stand up machine with a PC in the cabinet costs as much to buy/maintain as those huge behemoth cockpit games. These new machines may have been an attempt to counter consoles since most people will not put a race car cockpit game in their home, but for the most part were boring. Who wants to rock a fake horse forwards and backwards in a crappy rendition of a horse race? If this were true, then we would have arcades with lower end, more cost efficient games instead of the ones you're pointing out. But we don't. I submit that it isn't because every single former arcade owner individually misjudged the market and stocked the wrong machines in their retail space. >If the industry, in the US for me, had stayed away from that nonsense then I would have gladly gone to the arcade despite having a nice console at home. On this, I also humbly submit that you are in the extreme minority.

hkmurakami 14y ago

I agree, this reminds me of those new-age bowling alleys complete with night-club-like lighting, bar, and even a "no white shirts" rule. I never felt comfortable in one of those, and always preferred to go to the run down, crappy bowling alleys. Oh how I miss Mel's Bowl in Redwood City :(.

tankbot 14y ago

> those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. No, these are definitely arcades that happen to serve adult beverages. I've only been to a few such places, so my experience is anecdotal, but the games are not 'spread throughout', they are packed into every square inch of available space. (with drink holders!) Dave and Busters or some similar establishment probably qualifies as what you are describing, but I've never been so can't really say. > But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price. You're right about the industry killing itself though, and it happened exactly how you say. The folks running the companies saw $ and forgot their core audience. Arcades were about putting your quarter up next and then schooling some cocky punk in Tekken, not paying $5 for an interactive single player movie where you can sort-of shoot some barrels or dinosaurs. Anyway, these new places aren't for kids, they're for people like me (us?) who grew up with arcades but now love beer. And it's great!

talmand 14y ago
From my experience Dave & Busters depends solely on your local spot. I've been in good and bad ones so you just have to try them out. The local one for me these days isn't so bad and I have taken my older kid to it for food and games. But they still have too many cockpit games. At least most of them are race related which does make sense. But they really need to get rid of that eight cockpit Sega Nascar game from like twenty years ago. My phone has better graphics.

mindcrime 14y ago

I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. Not all of them. From TFA: But the recent boom in arcade openings isn't just among places that use games as an excuse to serve alcohol. "Our intention was more to be a resource for young people in the community," said Jeromy Darling, who opened ZAP arcade in the Minneapolis suburb of Jordan as a way to keep the town's young people occupied. "There's really nothing for youth there. There's a water tower, a lake, a creek... it's small. That was really our intention when we opened, to be a safe resource for kids, to offer something in the community that was just sort of cheap fun." I'm not taking my kids to a nightclub to play arcade games but one or two they mention would be worthy. Although it is nice to see interest in having arcade machines in some form so maybe it'll kick off interest in proper arcades. Yeah, sounds like there are already some family friendly ones... hopefully more will emerge.

Zimahl 14y ago

I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. I live in Portland and we have a fairly well known 'barcade' called Ground Kontrol. The games aren't spread out at all, there's barely room to move. When the lights are down and the blacklights are up, it's about as close as you can get to Flynn's Arcade[1]. From opening until 5pm every day, it's all ages. But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price. The 2+ quarter games were an issue, but our mall arcade died out when it turned into a 'fun center' and they replaced a lot of the games with skill machines for tickets/prizes. I'm sure this was more profitable but boring as hell. [1] http://groundkontrol.com/arcade/ http://groundkontrol.com/arcade/

fuzzythinker 14y ago

I disagree with your arcade death reason by the 2x price. According to [1], arcades had started costing a $.25 USD since 1966. By standard rate of inflation of ~3.4% [2], that means it should cost approximately $1.50 USD today. One argument to this is rather the starting basis of $.25 is the right price. According to the same source, the golden age of arcade is ~1980. So for the sake of finding a lower optimal basis, let's assume that $.25 is the optimal pricing in 1980. Which means arcade games should cost ~$.75 to play today. Now the question becomes rather games should accept coins other than quarters so the pricing isn't such a steep step function, or game creators needed to start making games to justify 2x pricing. I guess they decided on the latter. So I totally disagree with this assessment. I would say the consoles offering an alternative to arcade games at a reasonable price is the main reason. Yes, I agree with you that it's a totally different experience, but maybe not enough to stop going to the arcades when one can play for "free" at home or friends' house. This is the first step in killing the arcades. The second step is the internet and portable gaming/mobile as an alternate pastime for kids. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_game [2] http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/long_term_inflation.asp http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/long_term_... (not sure the credibility of the site, but I'm sure the average inflation rate in US isn't too much different)

talmand 14y ago
I'm sure your right in many ways, but I'm talking about the day that I had a choice between a 50 cent game (up from 25 which I was fine with) to a $1+ game in the same arcade on the same day, not over time. The $1+ game did not seem to be twice the fun. Then one day the 50 cent game was gone and all I had to choose from were the more expensive machines. At that point I stopped going. Granted, this is my experience and should be taken as such.
protomyth 14y ago
Looking at the competition for time today, many games on devices are $0.99 USD. A $1.50 USD game better be a heck of a cool experience. For my part, I stopped going to arcades when the price went over $0.50 USD. It was more fun just to rent some games for the weekend.

reddiric 14y ago

The article didn't talk about Seattle specifically, but we have five major pinball/arcade destinations. Shorty's in Belltown - a bar with 16 pinball machines and 13 arcade machines Narwhal in Capital Hill - a bar with 8 pinball machines and many arcade games Full Tilt Ice Cream - an Ice Cream parlor in Ballard with 13 pinball machines and several arcade games Seattle Pinball Museum - an arcade in the International District with 31 new and classic pinball machines Add-a-Ball - a bar in Fremont with 11 pinball machines As well as several other restaurants / bars / arcades / game shops with several pinball and arcade games. At least in Seattle, we do have many arcade destinations.