4 ms·

Oh wow, what a blast from the past. Around the year 2000 or 2001 I got an optical mouse as a present (either birthday or new year, can't remember). I really wan

Oh wow, what a blast from the past. Around the year 2000 or 2001 I got an optical mouse as a present (either birthday or new year, can't remember). I really wanted it for a long time because playing StarCraft with a mechanical one was rather painful. Needless to say it was a USB mouse and I only had ps/2. I purchased an adapter but it never worked despite spending a lot of time trying and testing it with different PCs and mice. Then I took the adapter to an electronics repair shop. They opened it up and explained to me it was fake: it just connected the wires without any circuitry for the real USB support. They had no idea why anyone would manufacturer such a thing. Well, now I know why. I spent quite a long time thinking I was sold a counterfeit adapter.

spuz 2y ago
After reading the article I wondered if the adapter would work with other mice and if not wouldn't that cause confusion. So I guess we got an answer to those questions.
- xattt 2y ago
  I tried with Logitech mice (MX510, in pearly red) and it didn’t work.
- usrusr 2y ago
  Chances are there are other mice that support both protocols on the controller, but use a different USB-PS/2 pin mapping. My memory suggests that Logitech mice at the time had a PS/2 connector "natively" on the cable that plugs into an adapter for USB. Surely they did the same, skip on any active controller in the adapter and do it all on the controller they already have - those adapters where everywhere, and included with every mouse for a long time, which surely would not have happened if they incurred any meaningful cost pressure. Now did they use the same mapping? (assuming my memories are not completely wrong anyways) With one being USB-PS/2 and the other PS/2-USB, a test would be stacking both into a noop-adapter USB-USB or PS/2-PS/2 and see if it works.
  - usrusr 2y ago
    PS: Sorry I think I was wrong, had an edit open but failed to submit: I believe that I was thinking of keyboards that did the same (in particular of Cherry keyboards), not Logi mice. The same, and for longer I think, because PS/2 held out so much longer in its keyboard variant. At first because of unreliable (or missing?) USB implementation on BIOS level, then because of lingering distrust. Where PS/2 continued to exist surprisingly long (perhaps still?): the internal connection from laptop mainboard to touchpad. Not the DIN connector, but the protocol. And as a consequence, the cheapest external touchpads (those riding the efficiency of scale of the much higher volume internal market) had been PS/2 for a surprisingly long time.
unwind 2y ago
But making a counterfeit and going to through the trouble to pointlessly connect incompatible signals makes even less sense, doesn't it? Unless the idea is that it should "look legit" by having something on the inside, I guess. But then some 1-cent IC would have made it more believable so it still doesn't quite make sense. Perhaps (perhaps!) I'm now overthinking this. Sorry.
- xattt 2y ago
  Electronics shop assumed it was an active converter, rather than passive.
- Lammy 2y ago
  I've always wondered that about these passive USB to FireWire adapters: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=firewire+to+usb+adapter https://www.amazon.com/s?k=firewire+to+usb+adapter Is there something out there doing the same sort of trick as the mouse? I can't find any reference to one so as far as I can tell these things are entirely useless.
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    What in god's name? There's a photo of the inside of one which just shows glue and wires, which backs up parent poster's conspiracy theory thinking about companies just making nonsense cables: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/618Us-meOFL.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/618Us-meOFL.jpg There are dozens of these things. All the positive reviews look fake, too. I can't find any reference to any legitimate product ever that had some sort of passive USB/Firewire adapter. One review points out that Firewire uses 12V power, and a few others get power warnings from their devices potentially indicating that the pins are just being shorted somewhere.
trinix912 2y ago
The same happened to me when ordering a DIN-to-PS2 keyboard adapter from Aliexpress. But that one doesn't really need any extra circuit IIRC so it was even weirder they made a fake one.
beAbU 2y ago
Well, shit! This explains away the tons of frustration I had as a 10 year old battling with seemingly random optical mice not working with the PS/2 adapter.
rob74 2y ago
"Where were you then, Raymond Chen? I could have really used your advice 25 years ago!"

spuz 2y ago

After reading the article I wondered if the adapter would work with other mice and if not wouldn't that cause confusion. So I guess we got an answer to those questions.

xattt 2y ago
I tried with Logitech mice (MX510, in pearly red) and it didn’t work.
usrusr 2y ago
Chances are there are other mice that support both protocols on the controller, but use a different USB-PS/2 pin mapping. My memory suggests that Logitech mice at the time had a PS/2 connector "natively" on the cable that plugs into an adapter for USB. Surely they did the same, skip on any active controller in the adapter and do it all on the controller they already have - those adapters where everywhere, and included with every mouse for a long time, which surely would not have happened if they incurred any meaningful cost pressure. Now did they use the same mapping? (assuming my memories are not completely wrong anyways) With one being USB-PS/2 and the other PS/2-USB, a test would be stacking both into a noop-adapter USB-USB or PS/2-PS/2 and see if it works.
- usrusr 2y ago
  PS: Sorry I think I was wrong, had an edit open but failed to submit: I believe that I was thinking of keyboards that did the same (in particular of Cherry keyboards), not Logi mice. The same, and for longer I think, because PS/2 held out so much longer in its keyboard variant. At first because of unreliable (or missing?) USB implementation on BIOS level, then because of lingering distrust. Where PS/2 continued to exist surprisingly long (perhaps still?): the internal connection from laptop mainboard to touchpad. Not the DIN connector, but the protocol. And as a consequence, the cheapest external touchpads (those riding the efficiency of scale of the much higher volume internal market) had been PS/2 for a surprisingly long time.

unwind 2y ago

But making a counterfeit and going to through the trouble to pointlessly connect incompatible signals makes even less sense, doesn't it? Unless the idea is that it should "look legit" by having something on the inside, I guess. But then some 1-cent IC would have made it more believable so it still doesn't quite make sense. Perhaps (perhaps!) I'm now overthinking this. Sorry.

xattt 2y ago
Electronics shop assumed it was an active converter, rather than passive.
Lammy 2y ago
I've always wondered that about these passive USB to FireWire adapters: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=firewire+to+usb+adapter https://www.amazon.com/s?k=firewire+to+usb+adapter Is there something out there doing the same sort of trick as the mouse? I can't find any reference to one so as far as I can tell these things are entirely useless.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  What in god's name? There's a photo of the inside of one which just shows glue and wires, which backs up parent poster's conspiracy theory thinking about companies just making nonsense cables: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/618Us-meOFL.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/618Us-meOFL.jpg There are dozens of these things. All the positive reviews look fake, too. I can't find any reference to any legitimate product ever that had some sort of passive USB/Firewire adapter. One review points out that Firewire uses 12V power, and a few others get power warnings from their devices potentially indicating that the pins are just being shorted somewhere.

trinix912 2y ago

The same happened to me when ordering a DIN-to-PS2 keyboard adapter from Aliexpress. But that one doesn't really need any extra circuit IIRC so it was even weirder they made a fake one.

beAbU 2y ago

Well, shit! This explains away the tons of frustration I had as a 10 year old battling with seemingly random optical mice not working with the PS/2 adapter.

rob74 2y ago

"Where were you then, Raymond Chen? I could have really used your advice 25 years ago!"