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Apple's software quality (either in terms of polish or just plain QA) has steadily decreased I think the decline of software went hand-in-hand with the decline

Apple's software quality (either in terms of polish or just plain QA) has steadily decreased I think the decline of software went hand-in-hand with the decline of the native indie Mac app. They still exist, but when I started with the Mac (2007), there was a very rich ecosystem of native Mac apps. Most stood head and shoulders above their Linux and Windows counterparts. Apple has nearly destroyed that ecosystem with: race-to-the-bottom pricing incited by the App Store; general neglect of the Mac platform (especially between ~2016 and Apple Silicon); and a messy reactionary toolkit story with Catalyst, SwiftUI, etc. The new toolkits seem to imply that Apple says that it's the end of AppKit, but most SwiftUI applications are noticeably worse. With their messy toolkit story and general neglect, developers have started using Electron more and more. Sure, part of the popularity is cost savings, since Electron apps can be used on multiple platforms. But part of it is also that a Catalyst or SwiftUI app is not going to provide much more over an Electron app. They will also feel weirdly out of place and you become dependent on Apple working out quirks in SwiftUI. E.g. 1Password tried SwiftUI for their Mac app, but decided in the end that it was an uphill battle and switched to Electron on Mac instead. I recently bought a ThinkPad to use besides my MacBook. Switching is much easier than 10 or 15 years ago, since 80% of the apps that I use most frequently (Slack, Obsidian, 1Password, etc.) are Electron anyway. Even fingerprint unlocking works in 1Password. I was vehemently anti-electron and still don't like it a lot, but I am happy that it makes moving to a non-Apple platform much easier.

cameldrv 2y ago
I think most of this is just downstream of the Mac being eclipsed by the iPhone in terms of Apple’s revenue. The Mac just isn’t critical to Apple’s business like it was in 2009 when Snow Leopard came out. They would have started development on SL in 2008, when the iPhone was still a fairly niche product and there wasn’t even an App Store. Now, ios gets the executive attention and it will generally get the best developers assigned to it, and the Mac has to live with the scraps.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  Yeah I think this is the one, in terms of number of users, revenue, etc. The iPhone is more than 50% of their revenue, Mac is only ~8. Lower volume and higher price, but it doesn't come anywhere near their phone. Same with tablets, although they share an app revenue income stream with the iphone which makes up for the difference in hardware sales.
  - FofXisNull 2y ago
    By itself Apple's AirPods alone generates twice the revenue ($18B) vs Macs ($8B). So we can see where Apples priorities are.
Nextgrid 2y ago
> 1Password tried SwiftUI for their Mac app 1Password had a beautiful native Mac app that works to this day. Even assuming SwiftUI is actually bad, why did they have to migrate at all? What was wrong with the existing app? I'm not disagreeing with the opinions on Apple software quality, but I think the 1Password case is more down to their taking of VC money and having to give (JS) devs some busywork to rebuild something that worked perfectly well.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- SSLy 2y ago
  >What was wrong with the existing app? It didn't work on Windows and Linux desktops.
- ShrimpHawk 2y ago
  1Password is also now subscription only and online only. Gone are the days of a forever license and fully offline encrypted database allowing for 3rd party syncing via iCloud or others. The death of their old app went hand in hand with their race to the bottom subscription payment VC backed ecosystem. It's only time until they suffer a breach like everyone else.
  - inetknght 2y ago
    > Gone are the days of a forever license and fully offline encrypted database allowing for 3rd party syncing via iCloud or others. While it's true for 1Password, there are other password managers. KeePass is great for local password database files if that's what you're after.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
junga 2y ago
> I recently bought a ThinkPad to use besides my MacBook. I'm on the same boat here. Something is driving me away from my MacBook M1(Pro? Don't even know). I have a gut feeling that it's macOS but can't really put a finger on it yet. Bought a heavily used ThinkPad T480s (from 2018) and replaced almost every replaceable part of it, including the screen. Being able to replace many parts easily is a nice touch since I am using MacBooks since 2007 exclusively. Guess that's why I somehow overdid it here. Slammed Pop!_OS 22.04 on it and I'm very pleased with the result. The first Linux desktop I actually enjoy since trying SuSE 5-something. Pain points are teams (running in browser), bad audio quality with AirPods when using the microphone and cpu speed and heat. I guess one has to stop using Apple silicon in laptops to realize how amazing these processors are.
- microtonal 2y ago
  and cpu speed and heat Intel CPUs from that era were quite bad and everyone has upped their ante since then. I was thinking about getting a second hand from ~2021-2022, but my wife convinced me to get a new one, so I got a Gen 5 T14 AMD. It has a Ryzen 7 Pro 8840U and I rarely hear the fans, mostly only when Nix has to rebuild some large packages (running NixOS unstable-small).

cameldrv 2y ago

I think most of this is just downstream of the Mac being eclipsed by the iPhone in terms of Apple’s revenue. The Mac just isn’t critical to Apple’s business like it was in 2009 when Snow Leopard came out. They would have started development on SL in 2008, when the iPhone was still a fairly niche product and there wasn’t even an App Store. Now, ios gets the executive attention and it will generally get the best developers assigned to it, and the Mac has to live with the scraps.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Yeah I think this is the one, in terms of number of users, revenue, etc. The iPhone is more than 50% of their revenue, Mac is only ~8. Lower volume and higher price, but it doesn't come anywhere near their phone. Same with tablets, although they share an app revenue income stream with the iphone which makes up for the difference in hardware sales.
- FofXisNull 2y ago
  By itself Apple's AirPods alone generates twice the revenue ($18B) vs Macs ($8B). So we can see where Apples priorities are.

Nextgrid 2y ago

> 1Password tried SwiftUI for their Mac app 1Password had a beautiful native Mac app that works to this day. Even assuming SwiftUI is actually bad, why did they have to migrate at all? What was wrong with the existing app? I'm not disagreeing with the opinions on Apple software quality, but I think the 1Password case is more down to their taking of VC money and having to give (JS) devs some busywork to rebuild something that worked perfectly well.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
SSLy 2y ago
>What was wrong with the existing app? It didn't work on Windows and Linux desktops.
ShrimpHawk 2y ago
1Password is also now subscription only and online only. Gone are the days of a forever license and fully offline encrypted database allowing for 3rd party syncing via iCloud or others. The death of their old app went hand in hand with their race to the bottom subscription payment VC backed ecosystem. It's only time until they suffer a breach like everyone else.
- inetknght 2y ago
  > Gone are the days of a forever license and fully offline encrypted database allowing for 3rd party syncing via iCloud or others. While it's true for 1Password, there are other password managers. KeePass is great for local password database files if that's what you're after.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

junga 2y ago

> I recently bought a ThinkPad to use besides my MacBook. I'm on the same boat here. Something is driving me away from my MacBook M1(Pro? Don't even know). I have a gut feeling that it's macOS but can't really put a finger on it yet. Bought a heavily used ThinkPad T480s (from 2018) and replaced almost every replaceable part of it, including the screen. Being able to replace many parts easily is a nice touch since I am using MacBooks since 2007 exclusively. Guess that's why I somehow overdid it here. Slammed Pop!_OS 22.04 on it and I'm very pleased with the result. The first Linux desktop I actually enjoy since trying SuSE 5-something. Pain points are teams (running in browser), bad audio quality with AirPods when using the microphone and cpu speed and heat. I guess one has to stop using Apple silicon in laptops to realize how amazing these processors are.

microtonal 2y ago
and cpu speed and heat Intel CPUs from that era were quite bad and everyone has upped their ante since then. I was thinking about getting a second hand from ~2021-2022, but my wife convinced me to get a new one, so I got a Gen 5 T14 AMD. It has a Ryzen 7 Pro 8840U and I rarely hear the fans, mostly only when Nix has to rebuild some large packages (running NixOS unstable-small).