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That's again an oversimplification. It's not black or white, it's more complex. And that shouldn't be passed onto the general population, but to the companies t

That's again an oversimplification. It's not black or white, it's more complex. And that shouldn't be passed onto the general population, but to the companies that have been exploiting the resources as if they were infinite. They have become megamagnates and megacompanies, and now that we ask for solutions, it should not be "ha, ok, pay more".

monero-xmr 2y ago
Someone will have to pay more. No one wants to - no one.
- slopeloaf 2y ago
  I empathize with this and your earlier obviously inflammatory remarks, but we either pay for adaptation/mitigation now or pay billions if not trillions later for infrastructure repairs, more human lives lost, further extinctions of animal biodiversity, and reduced economic productivity from the loss of arable land. Taxing large emitters does still past the cost down to the consumer. Someone certainly has to pay eventually. Perhaps youre too cynical to believe humans now are willing to do so. I don’t think youre right, but it’s certainly an opinion those less optimistic share :) and there is plenty of current evidence to bring hopes down. Alas I’d like to die knowing I tried and cared instead of contributing to the apathy of the situation.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
    Every(?) western nation is going through a cost of living crisis. And some people believe increasing the cost of energy is a solution to anything.
    - bayarearefugee 2y ago
      There's one obvious solution to everyone's cost of living crisis: tax the wealthy fairly. We'll send modern civilization off a cliff before we do it, but it isn't like we don't know the solution.
      - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
        I hear this often, but I'm struggling to understand how taxing the wealthy will build houses, or lower the price of energy? Taxing the wealthy does one thing very well: transfer money from the hands of the wealthy, who are notoriously good at managing their wealth, in to the hands of politicians and bureaucrats who are notoriously bad at managing other peoples money.
        bayarearefugee 2y ago
        The way the wealthy "manage their wealth" is by buying up assets (including housing, etc) driving up the price for everyone else causing exactly this sort of cost of living crisis you referenced. Not really that difficult to understand. You should read up on the history of US taxation and how much stronger the middle class was when the wealthy got taxed fairly.
      - monero-xmr 2y ago
        You could not have agreed with my point more clearly. You don’t want to pay more, you want to force everyone richer than you to pay more. That’s the problem.
        bayarearefugee 2y ago
        I want them to pay the same amount I do as a percentage of their earnings. But they don't, they pay far less as a percentage of their earnings. THAT's the problem.
        monero-xmr 2y ago
        If you seized every billionaire’s money the government would be financed for less than a year. If you want sustainable taxation to finance your climate agenda you need to convince everyone to pay more. But people won’t do it unless you pitch it as a free lunch.
- namaria 2y ago
  We either pay now to have this civilization last longer or we pay later in terms of the unsustainable systems not being sustained any more.
milesrout 2y ago
It isn't companies that use the world's resources, it is consumers.
- plastic3169 2y ago
  Consumers can only buy that which has been manufactured. There is customer demand but nobody is forcing anyone to start a company. If you build a factory and release tons of co2 that is the concrete act destroying the planet. Blaming your clients for making you do it seems wrong. Also kicking the can down the road diffuses the responsibility and obfuscates what harm actually was done. Consumers have hard time tracking this stuff down and are amateurs vs. the manufacturers who are the experts in the process and actually can make decisions for the better.

monero-xmr 2y ago

Someone will have to pay more. No one wants to - no one.

slopeloaf 2y ago
I empathize with this and your earlier obviously inflammatory remarks, but we either pay for adaptation/mitigation now or pay billions if not trillions later for infrastructure repairs, more human lives lost, further extinctions of animal biodiversity, and reduced economic productivity from the loss of arable land. Taxing large emitters does still past the cost down to the consumer. Someone certainly has to pay eventually. Perhaps youre too cynical to believe humans now are willing to do so. I don’t think youre right, but it’s certainly an opinion those less optimistic share :) and there is plenty of current evidence to bring hopes down. Alas I’d like to die knowing I tried and cared instead of contributing to the apathy of the situation.
- TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
  Every(?) western nation is going through a cost of living crisis. And some people believe increasing the cost of energy is a solution to anything.
  - bayarearefugee 2y ago
    There's one obvious solution to everyone's cost of living crisis: tax the wealthy fairly. We'll send modern civilization off a cliff before we do it, but it isn't like we don't know the solution.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
      I hear this often, but I'm struggling to understand how taxing the wealthy will build houses, or lower the price of energy? Taxing the wealthy does one thing very well: transfer money from the hands of the wealthy, who are notoriously good at managing their wealth, in to the hands of politicians and bureaucrats who are notoriously bad at managing other peoples money.
      - bayarearefugee 2y ago
        The way the wealthy "manage their wealth" is by buying up assets (including housing, etc) driving up the price for everyone else causing exactly this sort of cost of living crisis you referenced. Not really that difficult to understand. You should read up on the history of US taxation and how much stronger the middle class was when the wealthy got taxed fairly.
    - monero-xmr 2y ago
      You could not have agreed with my point more clearly. You don’t want to pay more, you want to force everyone richer than you to pay more. That’s the problem.
      - bayarearefugee 2y ago
        I want them to pay the same amount I do as a percentage of their earnings. But they don't, they pay far less as a percentage of their earnings. THAT's the problem.
        monero-xmr 2y ago
        If you seized every billionaire’s money the government would be financed for less than a year. If you want sustainable taxation to finance your climate agenda you need to convince everyone to pay more. But people won’t do it unless you pitch it as a free lunch.
namaria 2y ago
We either pay now to have this civilization last longer or we pay later in terms of the unsustainable systems not being sustained any more.

milesrout 2y ago

It isn't companies that use the world's resources, it is consumers.

plastic3169 2y ago
Consumers can only buy that which has been manufactured. There is customer demand but nobody is forcing anyone to start a company. If you build a factory and release tons of co2 that is the concrete act destroying the planet. Blaming your clients for making you do it seems wrong. Also kicking the can down the road diffuses the responsibility and obfuscates what harm actually was done. Consumers have hard time tracking this stuff down and are amateurs vs. the manufacturers who are the experts in the process and actually can make decisions for the better.