21 ms·

Throwing my hat in here. The sub millimeter difference in the length of a dash conveys no additional meaning or clarity. It is impossible to argue me out of thi

Throwing my hat in here. The sub millimeter difference in the length of a dash conveys no additional meaning or clarity. It is impossible to argue me out of this position. It's not like you can reliably write these consistently by hand either without going over the top in length to make it extremely obvious.

miltonlost 2y ago
Length of breath/pause with a longer dash. Read some -- Emily Dickinson poems – you'll find a world ––– of meaning ––– in the millimeter.
- theelous3 2y ago
  I have read her in the past and can't say there were world's of meaning between -'s. Can you link an example? I looked again and couldn't see any obvious ones. Generally she just completely abused the -. Does she even use a comma once? lol
  - efilife 2y ago
    worlds. world's would indicate that a world owns something. Also, you can just write -s instead of -'s as the apostrophe indicates possession
    - pc86 2y ago
      Exactly the type of comment I'd expect to see on an HN discussion about different types of dashes.
- handoflixue 2y ago
  Poetry routines breaks grammar rules. A lot of poems rely on very specific white space layouts that you'd never see in writing. And your example shows how you can just use multiple dashes instead of having three different ones.
california-og 2y ago
Here's some examples where the en dash could make things more clear: -5--2°C post-war-pre-digital era See sections 10-O-15-Q Try Our New York-London Flight Connection!
- mvdtnz 2y ago
  -5°C to -2°C post-war - pre-digital era (not a sentence any sane person would use anyway). See sections 10-O - 15-Q Try our New York-London flight connection! (no kind of dash clears this one up without fixing capitalisation).
  - california-og 2y ago
    The last one was a gotcha: it's their newly established York–London flight! Try Our New York–London Flight Connection. Or if it was New York: Try Our New York – London Flight Connection. Note the additional spaces. Agree on the capitalization though.
    - handoflixue 2y ago
      > Try Our New York – London Flight Connection. I'd wager serious money that if you put that on a sign and surveyed people, at least in the US, they'd all still conclude it is a "New York" to "London" flight. What's the use of a communication tool, if it doesn't actually communicate anything to real people?
    - voidUpdate 2y ago
      York doesn't have an active airport
- quanloh 2y ago
  In my region at least, -5 ~ -2°C, or -5°C ~ -2°C. If the something is making people confuse, we replace it with a suitable substitution. Re-educating people is really just last resort. Is there anything keeping us from changing it other than ego?
MindBeams 2y ago
This sort of anti-intellectualism is the perfect antidote for those who claim that improper grammar is nothing more than evidence of language "evolving."
- Aardwolf 2y ago
  I think many grammar rules are not intellectual but just randomly evolved conventions. E.g. some English language rule says that a comma or ending period of a non-quoted sentence goes inside the quotes if there's something quoted at the end of that sentence. That rule feels anti-intellectual to me, as if there's some misunderstanding of how hierarchical placement in one-dimensional space works (since something that's not being quoted is being put inside quotes)
  - NegativeLatency 2y ago
    Spelling used to be more fluid and up to the writer/printer. Printers would also use different spellings as a mechanism to change the line width and otherwise format text to their liking. https://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Histengl/spelling.html https://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Histengl/spelling.html
  - milesrout 2y ago
    That "rule" is the rule in America but not elsewhere. Please break it. It is stupid.
- theelous3 2y ago
  What is more intellectual about wanting to complicate the language for one reason, versus wanting to simplify it for another?
harrall 2y ago
Em dashes don’t convey much meaning or clarity for me. Rather, seeing too short of a dash is like putting two clashing colors together or wearing two pieces of clothes that don’t match. It just looks instantly off. It’s just not aesthetically pleasing for me.

miltonlost 2y ago

Length of breath/pause with a longer dash. Read some -- Emily Dickinson poems – you'll find a world ––– of meaning ––– in the millimeter.

theelous3 2y ago
I have read her in the past and can't say there were world's of meaning between -'s. Can you link an example? I looked again and couldn't see any obvious ones. Generally she just completely abused the -. Does she even use a comma once? lol
- efilife 2y ago
  worlds. world's would indicate that a world owns something. Also, you can just write -s instead of -'s as the apostrophe indicates possession
  - pc86 2y ago
    Exactly the type of comment I'd expect to see on an HN discussion about different types of dashes.
handoflixue 2y ago
Poetry routines breaks grammar rules. A lot of poems rely on very specific white space layouts that you'd never see in writing. And your example shows how you can just use multiple dashes instead of having three different ones.

california-og 2y ago

Here's some examples where the en dash could make things more clear: -5--2°C post-war-pre-digital era See sections 10-O-15-Q Try Our New York-London Flight Connection!

mvdtnz 2y ago
-5°C to -2°C post-war - pre-digital era (not a sentence any sane person would use anyway). See sections 10-O - 15-Q Try our New York-London flight connection! (no kind of dash clears this one up without fixing capitalisation).
- california-og 2y ago
  The last one was a gotcha: it's their newly established York–London flight! Try Our New York–London Flight Connection. Or if it was New York: Try Our New York – London Flight Connection. Note the additional spaces. Agree on the capitalization though.
  - handoflixue 2y ago
    > Try Our New York – London Flight Connection. I'd wager serious money that if you put that on a sign and surveyed people, at least in the US, they'd all still conclude it is a "New York" to "London" flight. What's the use of a communication tool, if it doesn't actually communicate anything to real people?
  - voidUpdate 2y ago
    York doesn't have an active airport
quanloh 2y ago
In my region at least, -5 ~ -2°C, or -5°C ~ -2°C. If the something is making people confuse, we replace it with a suitable substitution. Re-educating people is really just last resort. Is there anything keeping us from changing it other than ego?

MindBeams 2y ago

This sort of anti-intellectualism is the perfect antidote for those who claim that improper grammar is nothing more than evidence of language "evolving."

Aardwolf 2y ago
I think many grammar rules are not intellectual but just randomly evolved conventions. E.g. some English language rule says that a comma or ending period of a non-quoted sentence goes inside the quotes if there's something quoted at the end of that sentence. That rule feels anti-intellectual to me, as if there's some misunderstanding of how hierarchical placement in one-dimensional space works (since something that's not being quoted is being put inside quotes)
- NegativeLatency 2y ago
  Spelling used to be more fluid and up to the writer/printer. Printers would also use different spellings as a mechanism to change the line width and otherwise format text to their liking. https://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Histengl/spelling.html https://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Histengl/spelling.html
- milesrout 2y ago
  That "rule" is the rule in America but not elsewhere. Please break it. It is stupid.
theelous3 2y ago
What is more intellectual about wanting to complicate the language for one reason, versus wanting to simplify it for another?

harrall 2y ago

Em dashes don’t convey much meaning or clarity for me. Rather, seeing too short of a dash is like putting two clashing colors together or wearing two pieces of clothes that don’t match. It just looks instantly off. It’s just not aesthetically pleasing for me.