6 ms·

> It is not known with certainty what metals are currently used by Intel or TSMC, though cobalt and ruthenium have been considered as the most promising choices

by q3k 2y ago

> It is not known with certainty what metals are currently used by Intel or TSMC, though cobalt and ruthenium have been considered as the most promising choices. Wait, shouldn't that be easy to find out? Section/delayer a chip and throw it under a SEM-EDX system?

hnuser123456 2y ago
Alright, who here has the delidding tools and SEM? Let's crack this egg
- q3k 2y ago
  I mean I have access to SEM with EDX [1] and I can (poorly) crack open chips [2], 'just' need to get some LN to run the EDX... I just can't believe this isn't something that another lab has already done and published! [1] - https://wiki.fa-fo.de/equipment:zeiss-dsm-962 https://wiki.fa-fo.de/equipment:zeiss-dsm-962 ; it's still not 100% restored [2] - Here's what I believe to be metal1 on a RP2350: https://object.ceph-eu.hswaw.net/q3k-personal/c98c23b8db73df4f523c5d6f601e8062bc1d3c3dbe68460a93e80d40f1bc2057.png https://object.ceph-eu.hswaw.net/q3k-personal/c98c23b8db73df...
  - hnuser123456 2y ago
    Nice! Can you tell that it's copper from the RP2350 image?
    - q3k 2y ago
      The EDX isn't functional yet, so I can't tell that.
IlikeKitties 2y ago
Der8auer on Youtube is the most likely candidate to figure it out if he so choses.
adrian_b 2y ago
There are companies that specialize in studying semiconductor chips made with recent manufacturing processes. They write reports with the results of their investigations, which are sold at hefty prices. So the competitors in this domain certainly know exactly what metals are used. This does not mean that these facts are published anywhere in the open literature. In general, trade secrets about what is in a product have rarely any value against well-funded competitors. They may work only to prevent the appearance of new entrants in the market. The secrecy maintained by many companies about how their products really work is very annoying, because it hurts only their customers, never their competitors. The only trade secrets that are enforceable are those about how something is made, not about what it is or what it contains.

by q3k 2y ago

hnuser123456 2y ago

Alright, who here has the delidding tools and SEM? Let's crack this egg

q3k 2y ago
I mean I have access to SEM with EDX [1] and I can (poorly) crack open chips [2], 'just' need to get some LN to run the EDX... I just can't believe this isn't something that another lab has already done and published! [1] - https://wiki.fa-fo.de/equipment:zeiss-dsm-962 https://wiki.fa-fo.de/equipment:zeiss-dsm-962 ; it's still not 100% restored [2] - Here's what I believe to be metal1 on a RP2350: https://object.ceph-eu.hswaw.net/q3k-personal/c98c23b8db73df4f523c5d6f601e8062bc1d3c3dbe68460a93e80d40f1bc2057.png https://object.ceph-eu.hswaw.net/q3k-personal/c98c23b8db73df...
- hnuser123456 2y ago
  Nice! Can you tell that it's copper from the RP2350 image?
  - q3k 2y ago
    The EDX isn't functional yet, so I can't tell that.

IlikeKitties 2y ago

Der8auer on Youtube is the most likely candidate to figure it out if he so choses.

adrian_b 2y ago

There are companies that specialize in studying semiconductor chips made with recent manufacturing processes. They write reports with the results of their investigations, which are sold at hefty prices. So the competitors in this domain certainly know exactly what metals are used. This does not mean that these facts are published anywhere in the open literature. In general, trade secrets about what is in a product have rarely any value against well-funded competitors. They may work only to prevent the appearance of new entrants in the market. The secrecy maintained by many companies about how their products really work is very annoying, because it hurts only their customers, never their competitors. The only trade secrets that are enforceable are those about how something is made, not about what it is or what it contains.