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Nah, this is definitely still solvable. Specifically looking at housing for example, I believe Austin and Minneapolis have seen some good progress. Your rhetor

Nah, this is definitely still solvable. Specifically looking at housing for example, I believe Austin and Minneapolis have seen some good progress. Your rhetoric sounds like the doomerism I constantly heard around 2009 during the great recession, ala "THIS time capitalism's done for good! No coming back from this one!" And then after a few years things largely went back to normal and the doomers pretended they'd never made any predictions, that would require them to actually introspect, you see.

wormlord 2y ago
There are reformist policies that work and actions that can be taken on the local level to help alleviate some of these problems. But they are not robust long-term solutions. > a few years things largely went back to normal The US is deporting random immigrants to a concentration camp in El Salvador without due process claiming all of them are "gang members" with zero evidence. If you are unable to tie the expansion of the executive power and capture of the courts to the class conflict in the US then idk what to tell you man.
- TulliusCicero 2y ago
  > But they are not robust long-term solutions. Why not? Sure, they could be undone, but that's true for any law in a democracy. > The US is deporting random immigrants to a concentration camp in El Salvador without due process claiming all of them are "gang members" with zero evidence. Got some bad news for you if you think abuses of executive power like this aren't largely normal here. Yes, it sucks, but my point was that the doomers couldn't disentangle a few very bad economic years from their highly motivated belief that the whole rotten system is gonna come crashing down Any Day Now, I Swear.
  - wormlord 2y ago
    > Why not? Sure, they could be undone, but that's true for any law in a democracy. Not a democracy, and you just answered your own question. They can be undone because the people do not wield absolute power. They can be overturned by the state government, or federal government, or local lobbying groups. > Yes, it sucks, but my point was that the doomers couldn't disentangle a few very bad economic years from their highly motivated belief that the whole rotten system is gonna come crashing down Any Day Now, I Swear. I never said the whole system was going to come crashing down. I said Liberalism is over. > Got some bad news for you if you think abuses of executive power like this aren't largely normal here. I don't understand your point. You acknowledge that things are bad and also seem to acknowledge that they are getting worse, but you also claim that I am being "doomer". I am simply stating that whatever remained of the liberal framework, like: - separation of powers - due process - representative democracy - constitutional law Is going bye-bye. I don't think it is "doomerism" when it is literally happening right now and has arguably been happening since the GWOT. I think you just want to be contrarian and look at everything bad happening and feel superior because you are aloof about it.
Herring 2y ago
The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. Americans (esp white Americans) have a lot of individualist, anti-collectivist, anti-government cultural attitudes. The last time a situation like this happened, it took a Great Depression and intense widespread economic pain for them to snap out of it. So what is it gonna take for Americans to demand universal healthcare? Idk, but 1 pandemic didn't do it. Maybe 3-5? Similarly real (inflation-adjusted) wage growth has been largely stagnant for most American workers, so eventually things will get bad enough, but not today and not tomorrow.
- wormlord 2y ago
  Yep basically sums it up. Enough "middle-class" people are insulated from collapse that they still defend the system even though it has already been torn up. Collapse is happening and has already killed people, it just hasn't been equally distributed yet. Once a "critical mass" of people feel collapse and it becomes "real" to them, they will be able to internalize the reality of the class conflict that caused it. Until then people will just keep thinking that "ah well this is just a temporary stumbling block on the path of liberal incrementalism".
  - Herring 2y ago
    On a more hopeful note, there's a chance it might happen when China's happiness level passes America’s. https://data.worldhappiness.report/chart https://data.worldhappiness.report/chart Around 2030, based on a simple linear trend.

wormlord 2y ago

There are reformist policies that work and actions that can be taken on the local level to help alleviate some of these problems. But they are not robust long-term solutions. > a few years things largely went back to normal The US is deporting random immigrants to a concentration camp in El Salvador without due process claiming all of them are "gang members" with zero evidence. If you are unable to tie the expansion of the executive power and capture of the courts to the class conflict in the US then idk what to tell you man.

TulliusCicero 2y ago
> But they are not robust long-term solutions. Why not? Sure, they could be undone, but that's true for any law in a democracy. > The US is deporting random immigrants to a concentration camp in El Salvador without due process claiming all of them are "gang members" with zero evidence. Got some bad news for you if you think abuses of executive power like this aren't largely normal here. Yes, it sucks, but my point was that the doomers couldn't disentangle a few very bad economic years from their highly motivated belief that the whole rotten system is gonna come crashing down Any Day Now, I Swear.
- wormlord 2y ago
  > Why not? Sure, they could be undone, but that's true for any law in a democracy. Not a democracy, and you just answered your own question. They can be undone because the people do not wield absolute power. They can be overturned by the state government, or federal government, or local lobbying groups. > Yes, it sucks, but my point was that the doomers couldn't disentangle a few very bad economic years from their highly motivated belief that the whole rotten system is gonna come crashing down Any Day Now, I Swear. I never said the whole system was going to come crashing down. I said Liberalism is over. > Got some bad news for you if you think abuses of executive power like this aren't largely normal here. I don't understand your point. You acknowledge that things are bad and also seem to acknowledge that they are getting worse, but you also claim that I am being "doomer". I am simply stating that whatever remained of the liberal framework, like: - separation of powers - due process - representative democracy - constitutional law Is going bye-bye. I don't think it is "doomerism" when it is literally happening right now and has arguably been happening since the GWOT. I think you just want to be contrarian and look at everything bad happening and feel superior because you are aloof about it.

Herring 2y ago

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. Americans (esp white Americans) have a lot of individualist, anti-collectivist, anti-government cultural attitudes. The last time a situation like this happened, it took a Great Depression and intense widespread economic pain for them to snap out of it. So what is it gonna take for Americans to demand universal healthcare? Idk, but 1 pandemic didn't do it. Maybe 3-5? Similarly real (inflation-adjusted) wage growth has been largely stagnant for most American workers, so eventually things will get bad enough, but not today and not tomorrow.

wormlord 2y ago
Yep basically sums it up. Enough "middle-class" people are insulated from collapse that they still defend the system even though it has already been torn up. Collapse is happening and has already killed people, it just hasn't been equally distributed yet. Once a "critical mass" of people feel collapse and it becomes "real" to them, they will be able to internalize the reality of the class conflict that caused it. Until then people will just keep thinking that "ah well this is just a temporary stumbling block on the path of liberal incrementalism".
- Herring 2y ago
  On a more hopeful note, there's a chance it might happen when China's happiness level passes America’s. https://data.worldhappiness.report/chart https://data.worldhappiness.report/chart Around 2030, based on a simple linear trend.