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I think the disconnect here is that; as much as I wish that was the world we lived in (and it might have been possible in Berlin ~15-20 years ago), I don’t thin

by klausa 2y ago

I think the disconnect here is that; as much as I wish that was the world we lived in (and it might have been possible in Berlin ~15-20 years ago), I don’t think “wide availability of four bedroom apartments affordable on a single middle-class income” is a reasonable expectation.

ivan_gammel 2y ago
In Germany we don’t say “four bedroom apartment”, we say “4-Zimmer Wohnung” usually meaning 3 bedrooms and a living room with kitchen. And no, this is absolutely an expectation that a middle-income family with children should be able to afford a decent place to live in. We have an artificial housing crisis in most Western countries, but there’s no objective economic reasons for it. It’s possible to build at scale and with good quality 3-4 times cheaper than current market prices.
- klausa 2y ago
  >In Germany we don’t say “four bedroom apartment”, we say “4-Zimmer Wohnung” usually meaning 3 bedrooms and a living room with kitchen Haha, yes, sorry — I wrote "four room apartment" first, but then spending too much time with Americans online rubbed off on me and I "corrected" myself :) > And no, this is absolutely an expectation that a middle-income family with children should be able to afford a decent place to live in. We have an artificial housing crisis in most Western countries, but there’s no objective economic reasons for it. It’s possible to build at scale and with good quality 3-4 times cheaper than current market prices. I think we're mostly in agreement here! It _should_ be possible, and that _should_ be how our society works! We _should_ demand more! But currently, it just straight up is not. You can both be realistic about what living options are available as a single middle-class earner, _and_ be dissatisfied with the status quo. I don't think these are exclusive.

by klausa 2y ago

ivan_gammel 2y ago

In Germany we don’t say “four bedroom apartment”, we say “4-Zimmer Wohnung” usually meaning 3 bedrooms and a living room with kitchen. And no, this is absolutely an expectation that a middle-income family with children should be able to afford a decent place to live in. We have an artificial housing crisis in most Western countries, but there’s no objective economic reasons for it. It’s possible to build at scale and with good quality 3-4 times cheaper than current market prices.

klausa 2y ago
>In Germany we don’t say “four bedroom apartment”, we say “4-Zimmer Wohnung” usually meaning 3 bedrooms and a living room with kitchen Haha, yes, sorry — I wrote "four room apartment" first, but then spending too much time with Americans online rubbed off on me and I "corrected" myself :) > And no, this is absolutely an expectation that a middle-income family with children should be able to afford a decent place to live in. We have an artificial housing crisis in most Western countries, but there’s no objective economic reasons for it. It’s possible to build at scale and with good quality 3-4 times cheaper than current market prices. I think we're mostly in agreement here! It _should_ be possible, and that _should_ be how our society works! We _should_ demand more! But currently, it just straight up is not. You can both be realistic about what living options are available as a single middle-class earner, _and_ be dissatisfied with the status quo. I don't think these are exclusive.