5 ms·

Agreed, I'm running 5e for some friends and I really wish I could convince them to move to PF2e, Paizo has so much more respect for their customers. WotC keeps

by gs17 2y ago

Agreed, I'm running 5e for some friends and I really wish I could convince them to move to PF2e, Paizo has so much more respect for their customers. WotC keeps finding new ways to insult us, especially towards DMs.

pavel_lishin 2y ago
You're going to have a hell of a time moving people from 5E to PF2E. I've been playing 5E for awhile now, and recently joined a PF2E game as a cast member on a podcast. The rules are significantly more crunchy, building a character without assistance - both from people, and from software - is virtualy impossible, remembering all of the rules as a new-ish player is difficult, and I would not even want to try running a campaign with all of the rules, conditions, interactions, etc. There are a lot of things that PF2E does that I really like, but as a whole system it's definitely geared at a person who liked 3E or 4E, but definitely not 5E. The next campaign I run, I might try running in Wildsea, or maybe Spire or Heart, but I don't see myself joining or running a PF2E game ever again.
- bluefirebrand 2y ago
  > The rules are significantly more crunchy, building a character without assistance - both from people, and from software - is virtualy impossible, remembering all of the rules as a new-ish player is difficult, and I would not even want to try running a campaign with all of the rules, conditions, interactions, etc. This is a mindblowing paragraph to read Yes, I've been playing D&D a long time Yes, I used to make 3e characters by hand without any software, which are much more complex than 5e or PF2E From my perspective, 5e and PF2E are around the same level of complexity I strongly suspect that if you think 5e doesn't have a similar amount of rule complexity, you are ignoring a ton of 5e rules without even realizing they exist, or playing them wrong Here's a question: In 5e, can you drink a potion as a bonus action? In Baldur's Gate 3, you can But no. Drinking a potion in 5e is an action However, you can ready a potion from your pack or belt to drink, as a bonus action, as long as you have a free hand to hold it with Bet you've been playing that wrong, most people do
  - pavel_lishin 2y ago
    You're not wrong - I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of 5E. (I do know the potion rule, because I've homebrewed the potion thing in every game I've ran - bonus action to drink, full action to administer. I'm doing it "wrong", but in my opinion, and those of my players, it makes the game better.) But consider just the conditions between 5E and Pathfinder2 - 5E has 15 conditions, most of which are fairly understandable (although things like "is a grappled character also incapacitated?" is an annoying issue that comes up more often than I'd like.) Pathfinder has 42, and a lot of them feel like gradations of a single condition. What's the difference between Hidden and Concealed? (I'm sure you know, and I'd know too if I spent the past decade playing Pathfinder.) But PF2E is, I would say, and objectively crunchier and more mechanics-heavy ruleset than 5E, and to go back to conditions, a lot of player actions (spells, attacks) mechanically impose conditions on enemies, and you as a DM and a player had better know what they actually do to play the game effectively. 5E is much less dependent on conditions affecting gameplay.
- gs17 2y ago
  > building a character without assistance - both from people, and from software - is virtualy impossible I'd be fine with this part, my biggest motivation to switch systems is being able to have a decent online character builder without having to rebuy every book AND pay a subscription.
  - pavel_lishin 2y ago
    Good news! Pathbuilder is free, and so is Archives of Nethys. https://pathbuilder2e.com/ https://pathbuilder2e.com/ https://2e.aonprd.com/ https://2e.aonprd.com/

by gs17 2y ago

pavel_lishin 2y ago

You're going to have a hell of a time moving people from 5E to PF2E. I've been playing 5E for awhile now, and recently joined a PF2E game as a cast member on a podcast. The rules are significantly more crunchy, building a character without assistance - both from people, and from software - is virtualy impossible, remembering all of the rules as a new-ish player is difficult, and I would not even want to try running a campaign with all of the rules, conditions, interactions, etc. There are a lot of things that PF2E does that I really like, but as a whole system it's definitely geared at a person who liked 3E or 4E, but definitely not 5E. The next campaign I run, I might try running in Wildsea, or maybe Spire or Heart, but I don't see myself joining or running a PF2E game ever again.

bluefirebrand 2y ago
> The rules are significantly more crunchy, building a character without assistance - both from people, and from software - is virtualy impossible, remembering all of the rules as a new-ish player is difficult, and I would not even want to try running a campaign with all of the rules, conditions, interactions, etc. This is a mindblowing paragraph to read Yes, I've been playing D&D a long time Yes, I used to make 3e characters by hand without any software, which are much more complex than 5e or PF2E From my perspective, 5e and PF2E are around the same level of complexity I strongly suspect that if you think 5e doesn't have a similar amount of rule complexity, you are ignoring a ton of 5e rules without even realizing they exist, or playing them wrong Here's a question: In 5e, can you drink a potion as a bonus action? In Baldur's Gate 3, you can But no. Drinking a potion in 5e is an action However, you can ready a potion from your pack or belt to drink, as a bonus action, as long as you have a free hand to hold it with Bet you've been playing that wrong, most people do
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  You're not wrong - I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of 5E. (I do know the potion rule, because I've homebrewed the potion thing in every game I've ran - bonus action to drink, full action to administer. I'm doing it "wrong", but in my opinion, and those of my players, it makes the game better.) But consider just the conditions between 5E and Pathfinder2 - 5E has 15 conditions, most of which are fairly understandable (although things like "is a grappled character also incapacitated?" is an annoying issue that comes up more often than I'd like.) Pathfinder has 42, and a lot of them feel like gradations of a single condition. What's the difference between Hidden and Concealed? (I'm sure you know, and I'd know too if I spent the past decade playing Pathfinder.) But PF2E is, I would say, and objectively crunchier and more mechanics-heavy ruleset than 5E, and to go back to conditions, a lot of player actions (spells, attacks) mechanically impose conditions on enemies, and you as a DM and a player had better know what they actually do to play the game effectively. 5E is much less dependent on conditions affecting gameplay.
gs17 2y ago
> building a character without assistance - both from people, and from software - is virtualy impossible I'd be fine with this part, my biggest motivation to switch systems is being able to have a decent online character builder without having to rebuy every book AND pay a subscription.
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  Good news! Pathbuilder is free, and so is Archives of Nethys. https://pathbuilder2e.com/ https://pathbuilder2e.com/ https://2e.aonprd.com/ https://2e.aonprd.com/