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> and the idea of education as means of producing useful workers is straight from a totalitarian planned economy I disagree. I get food from the supermarket, m

> and the idea of education as means of producing useful workers is straight from a totalitarian planned economy I disagree. I get food from the supermarket, my roof is built by someone else, unlimited water from the faucet. This stuff isn't coming for free, it is other peoples work. Of course i want to learn something useful to contribute back. But western societies don't seem to have a "We need X people with Y skillset" institution. If someone came to me like, "we need a welder to produce $needed_thing" then i would have put my skill points into that.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
So what is more efficient for this? : 4 years going in debt to get a well rounded education with a concentration in learning maybe 1.5 years of welding (in theory): or 2-3 years as an apprentice learning your specific trade and focusing on your one task (not in how many credits needed to graduate)? We had this structure with apprenticeships. Companies were the ones to say "we need x people with Y mindset". And they can pay to foster those people and mindsets. But they abandoned that because they didn't want to fit the bill for their own workforce. They instead put up with mediocre welders they kinda sorta train for 6 months and maybe the good ones stay. Great model for society.
- xnx 2y ago
  > they abandoned that because they didn't want to fit the bill for their own workforce. Exactly. Privatize profits. Socialize costs.
jmoak 2y ago
>But western societies don't seem to have a "We need X people with Y skillset" institution. If someone came to me like, "we need a welder to produce $needed_thing" then i would have put my skill points into that. We do, it's called the price of labor. We currently need highly educated healthcare professionals like a forest fire needs rain. These wages are literally off the chart: BLS list: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm Another list: https://www.careeronestop.org/Toolkit/Wages/highest-paying-careers.aspx?&persist=true&location=US&curpage=1&pagesize=500 https://www.careeronestop.org/Toolkit/Wages/highest-paying-c...

johnnyanmac 2y ago

So what is more efficient for this? : 4 years going in debt to get a well rounded education with a concentration in learning maybe 1.5 years of welding (in theory): or 2-3 years as an apprentice learning your specific trade and focusing on your one task (not in how many credits needed to graduate)? We had this structure with apprenticeships. Companies were the ones to say "we need x people with Y mindset". And they can pay to foster those people and mindsets. But they abandoned that because they didn't want to fit the bill for their own workforce. They instead put up with mediocre welders they kinda sorta train for 6 months and maybe the good ones stay. Great model for society.

xnx 2y ago
> they abandoned that because they didn't want to fit the bill for their own workforce. Exactly. Privatize profits. Socialize costs.

jmoak 2y ago

>But western societies don't seem to have a "We need X people with Y skillset" institution. If someone came to me like, "we need a welder to produce $needed_thing" then i would have put my skill points into that. We do, it's called the price of labor. We currently need highly educated healthcare professionals like a forest fire needs rain. These wages are literally off the chart: BLS list: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm Another list: https://www.careeronestop.org/Toolkit/Wages/highest-paying-careers.aspx?&persist=true&location=US&curpage=1&pagesize=500 https://www.careeronestop.org/Toolkit/Wages/highest-paying-c...