4 ms·

it is the other way around. ms copied heavily from what people where doing with compiz and gnome 2 back in the day

lproven 2y ago
No... get the timing and the attribution right. Both Vista's Aero compositor (not 7) and Compiz copied from Apple Quartz Extreme. Apple worked out how to use a 3D accelerator to speed up a 2D GUI. Quartz Extreme was first released in Mac OS X 10.2 in 2002. Vista and Compiz were both 2006.
- nicman23 2y ago
  i did not know about quartz but compiz was not the only 3d compositor iirc xcompmgr which became compton was older
  - lproven 2y ago
    I am not claiming Compiz was first. It's just the one I still use so it happens to spring to my mind. (My own laptops run Ubuntu with the Unity desktop.) As far as know, Apple invented the concept of a display compositor using 3D hardware. If anyone has prior art from before 2002 I'd love to know.
    - nicman23 2y ago
      i thought probably sgi would have done something but it turns out it was amiga lol
      - lproven 2y ago
        The Amiga did not have hardware 3D at all, so I doubt that.
        nicman23 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositing_manager#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositing_manager#History
        lproven 2y ago
        Hmmmm. I am not sure I personally consider that closely enough related to count. It often seems to me that even today Amiga fans are so passionate about the machine that they make rather exaggerated claims that do not really stand up. For instance in many places I have read the claim that AmigaOS was a microkernel OS, or closely-related claims such as that it was the first widespread microkernel, or the first GUI microkernel, and so on. The point of a microkernel is that only the microkernel runs in kernel space (in x86 terms, in Ring 0) and the rest of the OS is divided into multiple "servers" which run in user space (again in x86 terms, in ring 2 to 3). This in turn brings a problem, which is how to make comms between the microkernel and the servers fast. IPC is the big problem and that is what microkernel OSes struggle with, which has shaped the design of Mach, XNU, L4, seL4 etc. AmigaOS is small but everything runs in ring 0. There is no division and so there is no need for tricky performance-critical IPC and all processes can read and write each others' RAM. That makes it (1) easy (2) fast (3) not a microkernel. I would regard direct blitting into 2D windows as not unique, not the first such implementation, and not the same as 3D compositing. "Methinks milady doth protest too much."
        snvzz 2y ago
        >AmigaOS is small but everything runs in ring 0. Not accurate. In AmigaOS, everything runs in unprivileged mode, except for some specific critical code within exec.library which runs in supervisor mode or interrupt mode. What's true is that exec.library does offer a call to run code as supervisor[0], and that there's no memory protection. 0. http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD_2.1/Includes_and_Autodocs_2._guide/node0386.html http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD_2.1/Includes_and_Autodo...
        lproven 2y ago

No... get the timing and the attribution right. Both Vista's Aero compositor (not 7) and Compiz copied from Apple Quartz Extreme. Apple worked out how to use a 3D accelerator to speed up a 2D GUI. Quartz Extreme was first released in Mac OS X 10.2 in 2002. Vista and Compiz were both 2006.

nicman23 2y ago
i did not know about quartz but compiz was not the only 3d compositor iirc xcompmgr which became compton was older
- lproven 2y ago
  I am not claiming Compiz was first. It's just the one I still use so it happens to spring to my mind. (My own laptops run Ubuntu with the Unity desktop.) As far as know, Apple invented the concept of a display compositor using 3D hardware. If anyone has prior art from before 2002 I'd love to know.
  - nicman23 2y ago
    i thought probably sgi would have done something but it turns out it was amiga lol
    - lproven 2y ago
      The Amiga did not have hardware 3D at all, so I doubt that.
      - nicman23 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositing_manager#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositing_manager#History
        lproven 2y ago
        Hmmmm. I am not sure I personally consider that closely enough related to count. It often seems to me that even today Amiga fans are so passionate about the machine that they make rather exaggerated claims that do not really stand up. For instance in many places I have read the claim that AmigaOS was a microkernel OS, or closely-related claims such as that it was the first widespread microkernel, or the first GUI microkernel, and so on. The point of a microkernel is that only the microkernel runs in kernel space (in x86 terms, in Ring 0) and the rest of the OS is divided into multiple "servers" which run in user space (again in x86 terms, in ring 2 to 3). This in turn brings a problem, which is how to make comms between the microkernel and the servers fast. IPC is the big problem and that is what microkernel OSes struggle with, which has shaped the design of Mach, XNU, L4, seL4 etc. AmigaOS is small but everything runs in ring 0. There is no division and so there is no need for tricky performance-critical IPC and all processes can read and write each others' RAM. That makes it (1) easy (2) fast (3) not a microkernel. I would regard direct blitting into 2D windows as not unique, not the first such implementation, and not the same as 3D compositing. "Methinks milady doth protest too much."
        snvzz 2y ago
        >AmigaOS is small but everything runs in ring 0. Not accurate. In AmigaOS, everything runs in unprivileged mode, except for some specific critical code within exec.library which runs in supervisor mode or interrupt mode. What's true is that exec.library does offer a call to run code as supervisor[0], and that there's no memory protection. 0. http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD_2.1/Includes_and_Autodocs_2._guide/node0386.html http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD_2.1/Includes_and_Autodo...
        lproven 2y ago