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In France, there's also what's called en viager. In this system, a buyer buys real estate and then pays the seller a rent for the rest of that person's life, ty

In France, there's also what's called en viager. In this system, a buyer buys real estate and then pays the seller a rent for the rest of that person's life, typically while the person continues to occupy the real estate. Then, when the person dies, the buyer takes the real estate. (In at least one situation that was well publicized, the buyer actually died before the seller.) https://www.connexionfrance.com/practical/buying-and-selling-a-home-in-france-what-is-the-viager-system/590575 https://www.connexionfrance.com/practical/buying-and-selling...

Suppafly 2y ago
> In this system, a buyer buys real estate and then pays the seller a rent for the rest of that person's life, typically while the person continues to occupy the real estate. Then, when the person dies, the buyer takes the real estate. We have that in the US, it's called a reverse mortgage. Generally it's large investment companies doing the buying, but I don't think there is any real reason why normal people couldn't do it. The downside is that it's sort ripe for abuse where the large companies doing the buying can take advantage of the elders needing money.
- canucker2016 2y ago
  I think what the parent is talking about is called "residential sale leaseback agreement". Hugh Hefner did this arrangement with the Playboy mansion - https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesrealestatecouncil/2017/10/16/from-hefners-mansion-to-your-neighborhood-how-sell-and-stay-can-work-for-you/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesrealestatecouncil/2017/10... Conrad Black also did a similar deal for his place - https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/conrad-black-sells-23000-square-foot-mansion-in-toronto-but-will-stay-on-as-tenant https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/conrad-black-sells-2300...
  - dustincoates 2y ago
    Not quite. If I understand correctly from your links, the person selling the property then pays to continue living there. In the system I described, the person buying the property pays the seller an ongoing fee, and the seller continues to live there.
    - Suppafly 2y ago
      Really it can be whatever deal you work out. We don't really have laws preventing any sort of arrangement you might want to make. >In the system I described, the person buying the property pays the seller an ongoing fee, and the seller continues to live there. That's called a reverse mortgage in the US.
      - wahern 2y ago
        You can have arbitrary contractual arrangements (subject to local law), but the underlying property interests still matter, especially during disputes. I believe in the US a reverse mortgage typically means the mortgager (seller) retains legal title, with the mortgagee (buyer) taking a lien. But I believe an "en viager" is closer to the common law life estate, and in the context of reverse mortgage lookalikes would mean the mortgagee getting fee simple title with the mortgager retaining a life estate. A life estate arrangement was common, I believe, in the US before reverse mortgages became a popular product.

Suppafly 2y ago

> In this system, a buyer buys real estate and then pays the seller a rent for the rest of that person's life, typically while the person continues to occupy the real estate. Then, when the person dies, the buyer takes the real estate. We have that in the US, it's called a reverse mortgage. Generally it's large investment companies doing the buying, but I don't think there is any real reason why normal people couldn't do it. The downside is that it's sort ripe for abuse where the large companies doing the buying can take advantage of the elders needing money.

canucker2016 2y ago
I think what the parent is talking about is called "residential sale leaseback agreement". Hugh Hefner did this arrangement with the Playboy mansion - https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesrealestatecouncil/2017/10/16/from-hefners-mansion-to-your-neighborhood-how-sell-and-stay-can-work-for-you/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesrealestatecouncil/2017/10... Conrad Black also did a similar deal for his place - https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/conrad-black-sells-23000-square-foot-mansion-in-toronto-but-will-stay-on-as-tenant https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/conrad-black-sells-2300...
- dustincoates 2y ago
  Not quite. If I understand correctly from your links, the person selling the property then pays to continue living there. In the system I described, the person buying the property pays the seller an ongoing fee, and the seller continues to live there.
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    Really it can be whatever deal you work out. We don't really have laws preventing any sort of arrangement you might want to make. >In the system I described, the person buying the property pays the seller an ongoing fee, and the seller continues to live there. That's called a reverse mortgage in the US.
    - wahern 2y ago
      You can have arbitrary contractual arrangements (subject to local law), but the underlying property interests still matter, especially during disputes. I believe in the US a reverse mortgage typically means the mortgager (seller) retains legal title, with the mortgagee (buyer) taking a lien. But I believe an "en viager" is closer to the common law life estate, and in the context of reverse mortgage lookalikes would mean the mortgagee getting fee simple title with the mortgager retaining a life estate. A life estate arrangement was common, I believe, in the US before reverse mortgages became a popular product.