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Over and over again we see that defensive weapons are not needed when disaster comes. What job can a tire iron do while trying to get out of your flooded home,

Over and over again we see that defensive weapons are not needed when disaster comes. What job can a tire iron do while trying to get out of your flooded home, or escape a wildfire? What can a baseball bat do for the residents of Helsinki in the event of armed aggression against Finland?

reaperducer 2y ago
I guess you missed the part of the headline that read "or attack."
- eesmith 2y ago
  dlachausse said it was "something everyone should do anyway", and not just for an attack. I ended with "What can a baseball bat do for the residents of Helsinki in the event of armed aggression against Finland?"
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    Weaken the invading force by one.
    - eesmith 2y ago
      In a comic book fantasy perhaps. A bat doesn't weaken a missile or drone attack, and it encourages the armed soldier to shoot you.
err4nt 2y ago
A few years ago I ran through all the realistic emergency scenarios I could think of, living in a large city and driving in a car, and except for "being attacked with a gun" the emergency tool that seemed to be useful in basically every other scenario from a building on fire to stuck in an elevator to being in or coming across a car accident was a tomahawk or an axe with a spike/pick on the other end. They also tend to be cheaper than large axes and so it's easy to toss in the car or leave near the door, etc. It may not be the single best tool for some situations, but it seemed like the best all-around tool for almost every situation.
unsnap_biceps 2y ago
Defensive weapons are for protection from your fellow citizens when their supplies run out.
- eesmith 2y ago
  Except that does not happen. For example, https://www.shareable.net/disaster-collectivism-how-communities-rise-together-to-respond-to-crises/ https://www.shareable.net/disaster-collectivism-how-communit... “When a disaster strikes, like the flooding in Houston [after Hurricane Harvey], for example, you see everyday people pouring out all this generosity and solidarity,” says Christian Parenti, associate professor of economics at John Jay College in New York City. ... "This idea is reinforced by author Rebecca Solnit in her landmark book, “A Paradise Built in Hell,” in which she explains that, “in the wake of an earthquake, a bombing, or a major storm, most people are altruistic, urgently engaged in caring for themselves and those around them, strangers and neighbors as well as friends and loved ones.” Okay, it does happen in Siege of Leningrad conditions where people will murder for a ration card, but even then it was not something people were just going around and doing.
  - unsnap_biceps 2y ago
    It's entirely fair to say it's not rational, but that is the justification for having defensive weapons.
    - eesmith 2y ago
      An irrational justification does not automatically make something a "good idea", which was the claim.
      - unsnap_biceps 2y ago
        I never claimed it was a good idea. You made a list of reasons why it doesn't work and left off the primary one I've heard of. I mearly responded with that option and didn't add any cometary on if it's a good idea or not.
theshrike79 2y ago
The residents of Helsinki will be making Molotov Cocktails when the armed aggressors are coming =) We invented that shit and named it according to said aggressor.

reaperducer 2y ago

I guess you missed the part of the headline that read "or attack."

eesmith 2y ago
dlachausse said it was "something everyone should do anyway", and not just for an attack. I ended with "What can a baseball bat do for the residents of Helsinki in the event of armed aggression against Finland?"
- reaperducer 2y ago
  Weaken the invading force by one.
  - eesmith 2y ago
    In a comic book fantasy perhaps. A bat doesn't weaken a missile or drone attack, and it encourages the armed soldier to shoot you.

err4nt 2y ago

A few years ago I ran through all the realistic emergency scenarios I could think of, living in a large city and driving in a car, and except for "being attacked with a gun" the emergency tool that seemed to be useful in basically every other scenario from a building on fire to stuck in an elevator to being in or coming across a car accident was a tomahawk or an axe with a spike/pick on the other end. They also tend to be cheaper than large axes and so it's easy to toss in the car or leave near the door, etc. It may not be the single best tool for some situations, but it seemed like the best all-around tool for almost every situation.

unsnap_biceps 2y ago

Defensive weapons are for protection from your fellow citizens when their supplies run out.

eesmith 2y ago
Except that does not happen. For example, https://www.shareable.net/disaster-collectivism-how-communities-rise-together-to-respond-to-crises/ https://www.shareable.net/disaster-collectivism-how-communit... “When a disaster strikes, like the flooding in Houston [after Hurricane Harvey], for example, you see everyday people pouring out all this generosity and solidarity,” says Christian Parenti, associate professor of economics at John Jay College in New York City. ... "This idea is reinforced by author Rebecca Solnit in her landmark book, “A Paradise Built in Hell,” in which she explains that, “in the wake of an earthquake, a bombing, or a major storm, most people are altruistic, urgently engaged in caring for themselves and those around them, strangers and neighbors as well as friends and loved ones.” Okay, it does happen in Siege of Leningrad conditions where people will murder for a ration card, but even then it was not something people were just going around and doing.
- unsnap_biceps 2y ago
  It's entirely fair to say it's not rational, but that is the justification for having defensive weapons.
  - eesmith 2y ago
    An irrational justification does not automatically make something a "good idea", which was the claim.
    - unsnap_biceps 2y ago
      I never claimed it was a good idea. You made a list of reasons why it doesn't work and left off the primary one I've heard of. I mearly responded with that option and didn't add any cometary on if it's a good idea or not.

theshrike79 2y ago

The residents of Helsinki will be making Molotov Cocktails when the armed aggressors are coming =) We invented that shit and named it according to said aggressor.