3 ms·

Could certainly be less confrontational, but in this case, it doesn't really feel so unwarranted, in large part because coming from Linus regarding the Rust for

by jchw 2y ago

Could certainly be less confrontational, but in this case, it doesn't really feel so unwarranted, in large part because coming from Linus regarding the Rust for Linux project, a stronger expression of frustration feels justifiable. It's a lot different than the real-life "toxic" communication I've witnessed, where the harshness is strictly one-sided and feels unjustifiable. But I guess the line will be up to taste. I've been on the receiving end of harsher communication that I don't feel was completely uncalled for, too. I certainly can be a stubborn person and sometimes reasonable communication just isn't getting the message across. On the other hand, there are people who basically never do anything to warrant being communicated to like this. It would be ideal if everyone could communicate calmly and always get the message across, but frankly it just doesn't seem to work that way.

maccard 2y ago
I disagree - the harshness here is personal insults and passive-aggressiveness. That's uncalled for and definitely "toxic". It's very possible to be assertive and shut down unconstructive discussions, as Linus has repeatedly shown. Here [0] is a great example of Linus being firm, assertive, calling someone out on their shit. [0] https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/20/2066 https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/20/2066
- jchw 2y ago
  I really regret the proliferation of terms like "toxic" to describe things as benign as this. I think it's literally recoloring people's perception of what bad communication actually looks like.
  - maccard 2y ago
    You brought the word up, not me. The tiles are simple - avoid character attacks, and don’t be passive aggressive. Be direct and firm. Otherwise people will go off topic and take whatever meaning they want (like I did with Linus’) comment and you did the same with the word toxic, which you introduced
    - jchw 2y ago
      I am okay with using it to describe things as "toxic" when they are, but there's a reason I still used scare quotes.

by jchw 2y ago

maccard 2y ago

I disagree - the harshness here is personal insults and passive-aggressiveness. That's uncalled for and definitely "toxic". It's very possible to be assertive and shut down unconstructive discussions, as Linus has repeatedly shown. Here [0] is a great example of Linus being firm, assertive, calling someone out on their shit. [0] https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/20/2066 https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/20/2066

jchw 2y ago
I really regret the proliferation of terms like "toxic" to describe things as benign as this. I think it's literally recoloring people's perception of what bad communication actually looks like.
- maccard 2y ago
  You brought the word up, not me. The tiles are simple - avoid character attacks, and don’t be passive aggressive. Be direct and firm. Otherwise people will go off topic and take whatever meaning they want (like I did with Linus’) comment and you did the same with the word toxic, which you introduced
  - jchw 2y ago
    I am okay with using it to describe things as "toxic" when they are, but there's a reason I still used scare quotes.