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I'd love to hear why WASM now has more promise than Java 1.x. Java's subsequent development was driven by enterprise/containers (mainly Oracle), and the VM has

by w10-1 2y ago

I'd love to hear why WASM now has more promise than Java 1.x. Java's subsequent development was driven by enterprise/containers (mainly Oracle), and the VM has stayed relevant for 30 years by incorporating dozens of advances in machine and programming models. Both successful and lamentable. If WASM (i.e., the loose collection of organizations driving it) could do it better than Java, wouldn't Java (with all its resources and organization) have already done it? The answer has to lie in unsustainable or limiting technical decisions. What exactly are the design decisions WASM made to make it seem like it would escape becoming Java-like?

pie_flavor 2y ago
Roughly the same reason as every time someone asks the same question in any post that mentions WASM: Java is a particular model with a particular view of the world, tied to a GC and a particular standard library and various hard limitations such as no user-defined value types that make it impossible to compile C code to properly and run it with reasonably C-like speed. Just because Java has incorporated dozens of 'advances' doesn't mean any of them address its longstanding problems, and you're mixing implementation tech with spec design in your reasoning. You, in your daily life, likely use zero software incorporating Java and multiple pieces of software incorporating WASM. You cannot imagine using Java for shaping functions embedded in font files, or sandboxed 'native' modules in a JS-based text editor, or blockchain smart contracts. In fact Java basically cannot be reliably sandboxed at all.
apitman 2y ago
Because WASM is currently solving a real problem for me that Java can't solve, ie easily embedding code I wrote in one language into many other languages. You can do something similar with shared libraries, but you have to compile them for every architecture and OS and solve the associated distribution problems. Ask Python and JS how that works out in practice. A WASM artifact runs everywhere, and has addition security benefits.

by w10-1 2y ago

pie_flavor 2y ago

Roughly the same reason as every time someone asks the same question in any post that mentions WASM: Java is a particular model with a particular view of the world, tied to a GC and a particular standard library and various hard limitations such as no user-defined value types that make it impossible to compile C code to properly and run it with reasonably C-like speed. Just because Java has incorporated dozens of 'advances' doesn't mean any of them address its longstanding problems, and you're mixing implementation tech with spec design in your reasoning. You, in your daily life, likely use zero software incorporating Java and multiple pieces of software incorporating WASM. You cannot imagine using Java for shaping functions embedded in font files, or sandboxed 'native' modules in a JS-based text editor, or blockchain smart contracts. In fact Java basically cannot be reliably sandboxed at all.

apitman 2y ago

Because WASM is currently solving a real problem for me that Java can't solve, ie easily embedding code I wrote in one language into many other languages. You can do something similar with shared libraries, but you have to compile them for every architecture and OS and solve the associated distribution problems. Ask Python and JS how that works out in practice. A WASM artifact runs everywhere, and has addition security benefits.