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I help run a small annual founders retreat with around 20 other folks, and this is the first year we have zero Canadians attending (typically ~25%). These are

• yabones 2y ago
  Exactly. Even though I'm fairly confident that I wouldn't be detained at the border under dubious pretexts, and reasonably sure I wouldn't get black-bagged by ICE agents, the thought of being around a population who largely support going to war with my country isn't a comfortable experience. I've been to the northern US before and largely had no issues, but driving around with Ontario plates now that 30-50% of the population has been told to hate me isn't inviting.
  • Carrok 2y ago
    I promise you, despite whatever you've read or polls you've seen, Americans do not "largely support" going to war with Canada.
    • senderista 2y ago
      They don't support it, but they mostly don't care about it (or rather Trump's threats to do so) either. Otherwise Trump's approval rating would not be around 50%.
    • irrational 2y ago
      Hardly anyone is protesting in the streets about it. There are protests, but they are a minuscule percentage of the population. Not protesting is basically supporting, just like not voting is basically supporting whoever wins.
      • Carrok 2y ago
        > Not protesting is basically supporting If you want to live in a world as black and white and clear cut as this, I don't think anything I can say will stop you. Needless to say, it's not that simple.
        • dopidopHN 2y ago
          Out of curiosity, what is a good course of action ?
        • drivingmenuts 2y ago
          Silence is the same as support for the administration because that's how they will perceive it and comment about it. They'll also try to cast dissent as treason. Their lickspittles will just go along with it. Only when there is enough full-throated protest will it, maybe, slow them down or force them to reconsider.
      • LPisGood 2y ago
        Protests don’t generally happen in response to words. If actions towards invading Canada start, protests would begin immediately.
        • andruby 2y ago
          The actions (tariffs) have already started.
          • LPisGood 2y ago
            That’s not an action towards invasion by any stretch.
            • cmrdporcupine 2y ago
              According to Trump it is. He said he destroy the Canadian economy in order to force us to join.
    • coliveira 2y ago
      Think again, because most people who voted for T. are not concerned about the talk of making Canada the 51st state and similar stupidity. They continue to support him despite this.
      • daveguy 2y ago
        Maybe they should call their representatives and tell them to stop supporting such dumbfuckery.
        • bdangubic 2y ago
          calling representatives these days works just as well as when I tell my wife to calm down
          • deleted 2y ago
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          • daveguy 2y ago
            Nah, representatives left and right see the dumbfuckery now. They just need to know their constituents see it too. Capitol Switchboard: (202) 224-3121
          • dopidopHN 2y ago
            Oh. You tried nothing and it’s over ? Out of curiosity what works to obtain results beside voting every now and then ?
            • bdangubic 2y ago
              in this day and age with America the way it is not sure anything works other than voting every two years (though the ruling party is working HARD to take that away). both parties live by “party over country” mantra so your phone calls won’t do jackshit. you can go look up votes by congressman/senator and see how many can you find where a congressman/senator voted for the good of his constituents and not rubberstamped it along the party lines. ballparking this is 0.0076% of all votes (say in the last decade)
    • rectang 2y ago
      A substantial fraction of Americans support the President's threats, similar to hangers-on enjoying a high-school bully musing over whether to punch a student. There might not be support for military invasion, but it's there for applying extreme economic pressure and seeing how much Canada can be forced to give up.
      • nh23423fefe 2y ago
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        • ACow_Adonis 2y ago
          Your countrymen literally voted in Trump, and they did it with broad support across many parts of the country. You can argue that a significant proportion didn't, which is true, but while democrats and the like show increasing distaste which can be explained along general partisan lines, on the other side is a significant number of Trump supporters who show themselves strongly supportive of and behind his general policies and proclamations. To pretend otherwise or call that fearmongering is to deny all reality.
          • deleted 2y ago
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          • dralley 2y ago
            Trump said a lot of horrible shit during and prior to the campaign which you can blame his supporters for implicitly backing. But all of this shit about Canada, Greenland and the Panama Canal only started after the election.
            • Volundr 2y ago
              Greenland at least was a thing even in his first term. I'm not sure about the timeline on Panama and Canada, but I also don't see his supporters condemning the rhetoric or even distancing themselves from it.
            • 2y ago
    • attentive 2y ago
      I see the repeat of russia vs Ukraine. Same rhetoric coming on how it's posturing and bluff and grand smart doubleplay etc. We all see the result of it. When people say who they are and what they'll do, believe them.
    • _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      3 months ago zero American's cared about the name of the Gulf of Mexico.
      • cmurf 2y ago
        Apple and Google tripped over each other as they raced to change their Maps apps to reflect their bending of the knee to Trump.
    • graeme 2y ago
      This is correct, at present about 2% of people support taking over Canada by military force. But the thing is there's a playbook. Even in Russia they didn't start by saying "We are going to start a formal war against international law, who is with me?" 1. They called Ukraine not a country. 2. They said Ukranians in certain regions wanted to be Russian, or should be Russian. 3. They cultivated politicians and figures of influence in Ukraine to join them. 4. They sent unmarked troops into limited regions and started a purported separatist movement. These were the little green men, actually Russian soldiers in generic fatigues. 5. They formally joined the fight once the separatists were losing. 6. They agreed to a ceasefire and kept violating it. 7. In 2022 they started a "special military operation" (still not a war!) on a pretext. 8. Now it's a war The process took a decade. Currently the US has done steps 1 through 3. On a nearly daily basis the president and multiple admin officials call the border artificial, say Canada isn't a country, say we must be annexed (the word means taken against our will). The US admin has cultivated the separatist leader of Alberta, who has made multiple visits to Washington and who has admitted to asking Trump to pause tariffs in order to help a pro US far right politician win the upcoming elections. A journalist who is a fellow traveller of the movement has asked Trump about the practicality of starting by taking Alberta and Saskatechewan and then the rest of the country and Trump said taking Canada had to happen. We also saw that after the Zelensky oval office visit US public opinion shifted about 20-30% against Zelensky in lockstep with the president making clear his opinion. So I agree, right now the idea seems ludicrous. But the US admin is at the beginning phases of preparing the info environment to accept escalations. And any discussion of this online now has bot accounts parroting the same lines. Frankly in Canada we're very glad at the domestic resistance to war. I'm not sure they can actually pull off getting support for invasion. They might think they need not go that far. But what's clear is that for whatever reason they do seem serious about taking us over; Canadian official have expressed as much. Prewar, polls showed about 18% of the Donbas were interested in joining Russia. About the same percent of Alberta is interested in joining the US. It's enough to work with, if their narrative isn't actively resisted every step of the way.
      • jrs235 2y ago
        Someone needs to tell those Albertans that want to join the US to move to the US if they don't like it in Canada...
    • jhp123 2y ago
      A recent poll found that only 14% of Americans believe that the President should ignore court rulings that he disagrees with. But when the same poll asked if President Trump should ignore a specific court order that he disagrees with, on the topic of deportations, the numbers shot up to 40%. Americans do not support going to war with Canada in the abstract, but many of us will find a way to support whatever specific casus belli Trump comes up with. It's what I like to call the "Trump Derangement Syndrome" - these people know right from wrong, but when Trump is involved they lose their sense of reality.
      • cmrdporcupine 2y ago
        Yep, it's like if you polled Americans and their representatives whether the US should invade and take over Iraq on Sept 10, 2001 vs March 19th, 2003. 9/11 and then a year and a half of constant "axis of evil" propaganda and suddenly a majority in congress was behind those actions. But if you'd told people in May, June, August of 2001 that the US would be mobilizing for full invasion of another country, they'd tell you there was no support for that. And Bush's approval ratings were really low, too.
    • beAbU 2y ago
      They voted for a president that does though.
    • ModernMech 2y ago
      Of course Americans don't "largely support" war with Canada. Just like they don't support insurrection against the government. We saw that when insurrection happened here, they are quite appalled! "That's not who we are!" they said say as they recoiled from the images. But then something amazing happened. They were fed lines about how actually, it was Antifa; and actually, it was the FBI; and actually, it was Nancy Pelosi; and actually, they were patriots, and this was peaceful protest, and it was all legitimate political action. And the real villains are the people prosecuting us for this! How dare they! Then all of a sudden people who were not okay with it were fine with what happened. So today, they support and vote for the people who enabled the very thing they said is beyond the pale. So it will go with Canada. First it was a joke, and people laughed. Then it's said a little more seriously and there's a reason - trade deficit. Then there's some negotiations about trade but it's not good enough, there's a new thing - they are sending drugs. And it will go like that with increased urgency. Next it will be they are sending rapists and criminals across the border. The "Mexicanization" of Canadians will begin. It will be framed as a need to defend ourselves, but also we will be told the Canadians want it. They are welcoming us to invade them, and bring them into the American fold.The New York Times will probably run headlines stating as much. So for those who aren't swayed by the stick, they will be swayed by the carrot. When the invasion happens, it will be predicated on lies. See Iraq / Afghanistan. It will not be supported by most people, but it will happen anyway.
      • cmrdporcupine 2y ago
        The dialog on the American right already includes open claims about our apparently-communist regime and the outright oppression that supposedly happens here because of what happened in Ottawa in 2022. (We were supposed to let the convoy types overthrow our gov't, I guess) I see comments on here from very smart educated "libertarian" types about this all the time. Canada is anti-freedom, etc. etc. So in some respects the ideological justification has already begun. Both inside and outside of Canada. If the Liberals win next months election, expect it to go into overdrive both in the US but also in Alberta/Saskatchewan. When they take Alberta it will because they're saving it from oppression. Or something.
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    • Sammi 2y ago
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    • dopidopHN 2y ago
      It’s a bummer but we elected this fair and square. We need to face the music . I’ve been specifically looking for outrage on Canada on right leaning media. It’s not easy to find.
      • willhslade 2y ago
        National / Financial post has a bit. It's a network
    • infecto 2y ago
      You promise? That a hilarious statement. A large chunk of the US voted him in. There is no other way to interpret it. America needs to get what it asked for.
  • genocidicbunny 2y ago
    > but driving around with Ontario plates now that 30-50% of the population has been told to hate me isn't inviting. I went to Idaho once in a car with California (CA) plates, ended up stopping in a fairly small town overnight before heading to see some of the parks. The person at the front desk of the hotel I stayed at noticed the CA plates and suggested I remove them (even offered a screwdriver they kept at the front desk for the situation) because they've had multiple cars with CA plates vandalized, specifically for being from CA. This was years ago, so not even strictly related to the current insanity. I can absolutely believe that with the current climate, there are places close to the Canada border where parking in the wrong area with Canada plates would draw unwanted attention.
  • deleted 2y ago
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  • timeon 2y ago
    > Even though I'm fairly confident that I wouldn't be detained at the border under dubious pretexts Hope your identity is not connected to this account because you just gave the reason.
  • deleted 2y ago
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• theturtletalks 2y ago
  A French scientist was entering the US for a conference and was asked to show his phone. His phone had conversations with other colleagues criticizing Trump's science fund cuts. They took his phone and laptop and denied him entry. I would expect many conferences to have less and less international attendees in the coming years.
  • matsemann 2y ago
    The previous round of Trump, a former prime minister of Norway even got stopped for a while for the "crime" of having an Iranian stamp in his passport. With it being several times worse now, I understand many are apprehensive of going. https://www.thejournal.ie/kjell-magne-bondevik-washington-airport-3221323-Feb2017/ https://www.thejournal.ie/kjell-magne-bondevik-washington-ai...
  • yubblegum 2y ago
    NYTimes' article on the event in case anyone is interested: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/21/world/europe/us-france-scientist-entry-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/21/world/europe/us-france-sc...
  • jech 2y ago
    > I would expect many conferences to have less and less international attendees in the coming years. It's starting: https://boycott-ietf127.org/ https://boycott-ietf127.org/
• FrinkleFrankle 2y ago
  I am Canadian. I used to collect my boarding passes and had a stack that was around 3 inches thick. Most of those were to the U.S. for leisure, conferences, etc. With the way things are going, I don't anticipate ever entering the U.S. again.
• swyx 2y ago
  just curious - why do this founders retreat? im sure youre not making from it what you put into it. and it doesnt sound like there's enough recurring friends to make it a friend group thing