3 ms·

It's a fact(I guess?) that they are that percentage of farmworkers. It's not a fact that without them that farms would not survive in America.

ceejayoz 2y ago
Sure it is. We've tried it: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/07/31/634442195/when-the-u-s-government-tried-to-replace-migrant-farmworkers-with-high-schoolers https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/07/31/634442195/wh... We already can't find enough labor: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farm-labor-guestworkers/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farm-labor-guestworke... and unemployment is historically very low.
- LetMePostMore 2y ago
  Maybe we can't find enough labor because 50% of the workers are working illegally, voluntarily and involuntarily accept illegal working standards, and are suppressing wages far below what they should naturally be. Is your argument that if we kicked every illegal immigrant out of America tomorrow, that Americans would just choose to starve instead of paying slightly more for food, and farmers would just let food rot on the vine instead of harvesting it?
  - fzeroracer 2y ago
    Did you at least read the article that they shared? It answers all of your questions.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    > Is your argument that if we kicked every illegal immigrant out of America tomorrow, that Americans would just choose to starve instead of paying slightly more for food, and farmers would just let food rot on the vine instead of harvesting it? Oh, they wouldn't choose. They'd just have that as the inevitable consequence. Famines happen; just wishing them away isn't really a great approach. It doesn't help that these decisions take months/years to show their impacts.
    - LetMePostMore 2y ago
      How many famines have happened because ample food was readily available, but farmers didn't want to pay a slightly elevated wage to workers to pick the food? In this scenario, some farmer is going to choose to pay $20/hr for farm workers, and rake in insane profits if there really is a famine. In fact, almost all farms would choose to pay more to collect their food and sell it at a large premium in the case of a food shortage.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        > some farmer is going to choose to pay $20/hr for farm workers And hope that in six months, the trade war hasn't been settled? They won't be paid until the crop matures, and there's a lot of labor before that point. You're also competing with other countries, from whom we already import agricultural goods at reasonable prices. Again, decisions that lead to famine don't do so instantly.
        LetMePostMore 2y ago
        Literally what futures contracts were invented for.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        Yeah, that never goes badly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act You're full of easy solutions to tough problems, aren't you?
        LetMePostMore 2y ago
        Please show me any part of our modern world that has not gone wrong in some way at some time some how.

ceejayoz 2y ago

Sure it is. We've tried it: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/07/31/634442195/when-the-u-s-government-tried-to-replace-migrant-farmworkers-with-high-schoolers https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/07/31/634442195/wh... We already can't find enough labor: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farm-labor-guestworkers/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farm-labor-guestworke... and unemployment is historically very low.

LetMePostMore 2y ago
Maybe we can't find enough labor because 50% of the workers are working illegally, voluntarily and involuntarily accept illegal working standards, and are suppressing wages far below what they should naturally be. Is your argument that if we kicked every illegal immigrant out of America tomorrow, that Americans would just choose to starve instead of paying slightly more for food, and farmers would just let food rot on the vine instead of harvesting it?
- fzeroracer 2y ago
  Did you at least read the article that they shared? It answers all of your questions.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > Is your argument that if we kicked every illegal immigrant out of America tomorrow, that Americans would just choose to starve instead of paying slightly more for food, and farmers would just let food rot on the vine instead of harvesting it? Oh, they wouldn't choose. They'd just have that as the inevitable consequence. Famines happen; just wishing them away isn't really a great approach. It doesn't help that these decisions take months/years to show their impacts.
  - LetMePostMore 2y ago
    How many famines have happened because ample food was readily available, but farmers didn't want to pay a slightly elevated wage to workers to pick the food? In this scenario, some farmer is going to choose to pay $20/hr for farm workers, and rake in insane profits if there really is a famine. In fact, almost all farms would choose to pay more to collect their food and sell it at a large premium in the case of a food shortage.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > some farmer is going to choose to pay $20/hr for farm workers And hope that in six months, the trade war hasn't been settled? They won't be paid until the crop matures, and there's a lot of labor before that point. You're also competing with other countries, from whom we already import agricultural goods at reasonable prices. Again, decisions that lead to famine don't do so instantly.
      - LetMePostMore 2y ago
        Literally what futures contracts were invented for.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        Yeah, that never goes badly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act You're full of easy solutions to tough problems, aren't you?
        LetMePostMore 2y ago
        Please show me any part of our modern world that has not gone wrong in some way at some time some how.