4 ms·

I'd feel more optimistic if you had a specific mistake that Europe was going to stop making. Maybe adjustments to tax laws. Motivation doesn't cut it against pe

I'd feel more optimistic if you had a specific mistake that Europe was going to stop making. Maybe adjustments to tax laws. Motivation doesn't cut it against people like the Americans or the Chinese, there needs to be actual actions taken beyond makerspaces. This whole Europe bashing is becoming a tiring trope. Europe has a lot of successful companies, including in computing (ASML, ASM, ARM, NXP, STM, etc.). What we don't have are hyper-growth companies that mostly profit from vacuuming up your data and selling you ads. Good riddance. Yes, Europe would be nothing without the US. But the same is true the other way around as well, a few decades of globalism has distributed the production chains across countries. At any rate, back to the GP's comment. I do see a lot of optimism and the EU is going to invest a lot in defense, chips, and AI. There will be plenty of money floating around. Germany seems to have purposefully triggered a domestic energy crisis Well, not purposefully. But certainly ill-considered. At any rate, the EU is on the renewable energy track, we'll get there, and it will give us energy independence. Which is better than going a few decades back in time and 'drill drill drill baby'.

roenxi 2y ago
I just want to point out that this is very much what I expect from Europeans. Motivated, optimistic but explicitly rejecting large profitable companies and cheap energy. The immediate plan is to invest in the military which, notably, generally has negative returns on investment. > Europe has a lot of successful companies, including in computing (ASML... visualcapitalist has a wonderful chart I thought of when I saw that: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/semiconductor-production-by-country-or-region-1990-2032f/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/semiconductor-production-by...
- arsenico 2y ago
  The chart is interesting, but misses on an important thing: semiconductor production on it's own is complicated, but producing equipment for semiconductor production is the whole new level, that's why ASML.
FirmwareBurner 2y ago
>Europe has a lot of successful companies, including in computing (ASML, ASM, ARM, NXP, STM, etc.) Having "a lot of companies" is a meaningless metric on its own when all those European companies combined make less money than Apple on a bad quarter. That's like me saying I do "a lot of deadlifts", without mentioning all those deadlifts are done with an empty barbell. Context makes the difference. What matters is not how many companies, but how much money are you bringing into the economy and how many well paid jobs you're creating. EU has a lot of traditional and mediocrely profitable companies that are still going through layoffs: Bosch, Siemens, VW, Audi, etc due to being mostly stuck in stagnating industries that are facing increasing competition from Asia. >the EU is going to invest a lot in defense, chips, and AI I've heard this political song and dance before yet it hasn't ever materialized in more and better paid tech jobs for Europeans.
- microtonal 2y ago
  Having "a lot of companies" is a meaningless metric on its own when all those European companies combined make less money than Apple on a bad quarter. That's like me saying I do "a lot of deadlifts", without mentioning all those deadlifts are done with an empty barbell. Context makes the difference. Apple won't produce a lot of cutting-edge iPhone chips without ASML lithography. iPhones (at least some generations) also use NXP chips. ASML incidentally had a revenue of 28.26 billion in 2024 (slightly more than e.g. AMD). I've heard this political song and dance before yet it hasn't ever materialized in more and better paid tech jobs for Europeans. Which kinda shows that you (maybe?) don't understand Europe. Sure, more salary is always great. But many Europeans (also those working in the highly technical industry) prefer vacation days, good health insurance, unemployment benefits, being able to cycle/walk to work over concrete jungles, etc. I know a lot of tech people who had job offers in the US, but would never want to move there. Some do work remotely for US companies though.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    >Apple won't produce a lot of cutting-edge iPhone chips without ASML lithography. Who cares who makes what widget in the supply chain of whatever product? That doesn't change the fact that Apple makes higher margins on the ASML-TSMC made chips than ASML themselves. If you insist on being pedantic on the supply chain, then ASML couldn't build those machines without the EUV light sources from Cymer in California. iPhone are also made by Foxconn in China, so what? Every country has some companies highly specialized in something specific, but what matters at the end of the day is who takes home the biggest slices of the pie from the end product, not who makes how many widgets inside the product. >Phones (at least some generations) also use NXP chips. NXP is highly toxic company to work for that just had another wave of layoffs, and also has lower profit margins that Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, Nvidia, etc. basically all the US semi companies. So I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here but your chosen examples aren't selling the image of EU tech supremacy. Just look at market cap of EU vs US tech sectors.

roenxi 2y ago

I just want to point out that this is very much what I expect from Europeans. Motivated, optimistic but explicitly rejecting large profitable companies and cheap energy. The immediate plan is to invest in the military which, notably, generally has negative returns on investment. > Europe has a lot of successful companies, including in computing (ASML... visualcapitalist has a wonderful chart I thought of when I saw that: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/semiconductor-production-by-country-or-region-1990-2032f/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/semiconductor-production-by...

arsenico 2y ago
The chart is interesting, but misses on an important thing: semiconductor production on it's own is complicated, but producing equipment for semiconductor production is the whole new level, that's why ASML.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago

>Europe has a lot of successful companies, including in computing (ASML, ASM, ARM, NXP, STM, etc.) Having "a lot of companies" is a meaningless metric on its own when all those European companies combined make less money than Apple on a bad quarter. That's like me saying I do "a lot of deadlifts", without mentioning all those deadlifts are done with an empty barbell. Context makes the difference. What matters is not how many companies, but how much money are you bringing into the economy and how many well paid jobs you're creating. EU has a lot of traditional and mediocrely profitable companies that are still going through layoffs: Bosch, Siemens, VW, Audi, etc due to being mostly stuck in stagnating industries that are facing increasing competition from Asia. >the EU is going to invest a lot in defense, chips, and AI I've heard this political song and dance before yet it hasn't ever materialized in more and better paid tech jobs for Europeans.

microtonal 2y ago
Having "a lot of companies" is a meaningless metric on its own when all those European companies combined make less money than Apple on a bad quarter. That's like me saying I do "a lot of deadlifts", without mentioning all those deadlifts are done with an empty barbell. Context makes the difference. Apple won't produce a lot of cutting-edge iPhone chips without ASML lithography. iPhones (at least some generations) also use NXP chips. ASML incidentally had a revenue of 28.26 billion in 2024 (slightly more than e.g. AMD). I've heard this political song and dance before yet it hasn't ever materialized in more and better paid tech jobs for Europeans. Which kinda shows that you (maybe?) don't understand Europe. Sure, more salary is always great. But many Europeans (also those working in the highly technical industry) prefer vacation days, good health insurance, unemployment benefits, being able to cycle/walk to work over concrete jungles, etc. I know a lot of tech people who had job offers in the US, but would never want to move there. Some do work remotely for US companies though.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  >Apple won't produce a lot of cutting-edge iPhone chips without ASML lithography. Who cares who makes what widget in the supply chain of whatever product? That doesn't change the fact that Apple makes higher margins on the ASML-TSMC made chips than ASML themselves. If you insist on being pedantic on the supply chain, then ASML couldn't build those machines without the EUV light sources from Cymer in California. iPhone are also made by Foxconn in China, so what? Every country has some companies highly specialized in something specific, but what matters at the end of the day is who takes home the biggest slices of the pie from the end product, not who makes how many widgets inside the product. >Phones (at least some generations) also use NXP chips. NXP is highly toxic company to work for that just had another wave of layoffs, and also has lower profit margins that Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, Nvidia, etc. basically all the US semi companies. So I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here but your chosen examples aren't selling the image of EU tech supremacy. Just look at market cap of EU vs US tech sectors.