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Apparently there's some idea that suburbs by definition don't have sidewalks and have half acre lots with oversized McMansions. If that's your definition of sub

Apparently there's some idea that suburbs by definition don't have sidewalks and have half acre lots with oversized McMansions. If that's your definition of suburb, I take it back: I've never lived in a suburb. But I also strongly question the utility that definition for discourse like this. If some people here think that a suburb has to be the absolute worst stereotype of NIMBY living to count as a suburb and others are talking about anything with detached single family homes and yards, we're having very very different conversations. It seems more useful to work with the definition of suburb that simply means "outside the urban core".

reverius42 2y ago
There's a spectrum of density, and perhaps the sweet spot for front-porch interactions is somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. I live in a neighborhood with ample front porches and sidewalks -- and I've heard it referred to both as a suburb (by dense city dwellers) and "the city" (by people who live further out from the dense urban core). But it's easy to imagine both a dense city neighborhood and a semi-rural far-flung suburb with no front porches and no culture of interacting with neighbors. Even the definition of "outside the urban core" is hard to pin down; I'm pretty sure you could get disagreement on whether where I live is within the urban core or not.
stouset 2y ago
Suburbs have sidewalks but nowhere to walk to. Yes, counterexamples exist. But the vast majority of American suburbia is quite like what you describe: isolated homes with very low density where the only way to get to anything you’d want to do is drive, even within the neighborhood! I don’t have a front yard in my home in the city. But I do have a million things outside my front door. So I walk to them, and I see and meet neighbors along the way.
- lolinder 2y ago
  But you know what suburbs typically do have? Pleasant areas to walk in. I walk my dog and meet neighbors who are sitting outside their houses. I also sit outside my house and meet neighbors who are out walking their dogs or just out for a stroll. When I've spent time in big cities I simply don't see this, because there aren't good places to walk dogs and it's generally unpleasant to just be out in the street for the sake of it. The idea that all suburbs are isolated nightmarish hellscapes of pavement and car accidents is some combination of a myth spread by city dwellers and a minority experience in a few types of McMansion housing developments.

reverius42 2y ago

There's a spectrum of density, and perhaps the sweet spot for front-porch interactions is somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. I live in a neighborhood with ample front porches and sidewalks -- and I've heard it referred to both as a suburb (by dense city dwellers) and "the city" (by people who live further out from the dense urban core). But it's easy to imagine both a dense city neighborhood and a semi-rural far-flung suburb with no front porches and no culture of interacting with neighbors. Even the definition of "outside the urban core" is hard to pin down; I'm pretty sure you could get disagreement on whether where I live is within the urban core or not.

stouset 2y ago

Suburbs have sidewalks but nowhere to walk to. Yes, counterexamples exist. But the vast majority of American suburbia is quite like what you describe: isolated homes with very low density where the only way to get to anything you’d want to do is drive, even within the neighborhood! I don’t have a front yard in my home in the city. But I do have a million things outside my front door. So I walk to them, and I see and meet neighbors along the way.

lolinder 2y ago
But you know what suburbs typically do have? Pleasant areas to walk in. I walk my dog and meet neighbors who are sitting outside their houses. I also sit outside my house and meet neighbors who are out walking their dogs or just out for a stroll. When I've spent time in big cities I simply don't see this, because there aren't good places to walk dogs and it's generally unpleasant to just be out in the street for the sake of it. The idea that all suburbs are isolated nightmarish hellscapes of pavement and car accidents is some combination of a myth spread by city dwellers and a minority experience in a few types of McMansion housing developments.