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https://i.imgur.com/xsFKqsI.png https://i.imgur.com/xsFKqsI.png "Draw a picture of a full glass of wine, ie a wine glass which is full to the brim with red win

by meeton 2y ago

https://i.imgur.com/xsFKqsI.png https://i.imgur.com/xsFKqsI.png "Draw a picture of a full glass of wine, ie a wine glass which is full to the brim with red wine and almost at the point of spilling over... Zoom out to show the full wine glass, and add a caption to the top which says "HELL YEAH". Keep the wine level of the glass exactly the same."

Stevvo 2y ago
Can't replicate. Maybe the rollout is staggered? Using Plus from Europe, it's consistently giving me a half full glass.
- sionisrecur 2y ago
  Maybe it's half empty.
  - EgregiousCube 2y ago
    ha
- coder543 2y ago
  Is it drawing the image from top to bottom very slowly over the course of at least 30 seconds? If not, then you're using DALL-E, not 4o image generation.
  - uh_uh 2y ago
    This top to bottom drawing – does this tell us anything about the underlying model architecture? AFAIK diffusion models do not work like that. They denoise the full frame over many steps. In the past there used to be attempts to slowly synthetize a picture by predicting the next pixel, but I wasn't aware whether there has been a shift to that kind of architecture within OpenAI.
    - thesparks 2y ago
      apparently it's not diffusion, but tokens
    - cubefox 2y ago
      Yes, the model card explicitly says it's autoregressive, not diffusion. And it's not a separate model, it's a native ability of GPT-4o, which is a multimodal model. They just didn't made this ability public until now. I assume they worked on the fine-tuning to improve prompt following.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  You might still be on DALL-E. My account is if you use ChatGPT. I switched over to the sora.com domain and now I have access to it.
  - cchance 2y ago
    the free site even has it, just dont turn on image generation it works with it off, if you enable it it uses dall-e
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- amy_petrik 2y ago
  I am using Plus from Australia, and while I am not getting a full glass, nor am I getting a half full glass. The glass I'm getting is half empty.
  - bb88 2y ago
    That's funny. HN hates funny. Enjoy your shadowban.
    - BlobberSnobber 2y ago
      Yeah. I understand that this site doesn’t want to become Reddit, but it really has an allergy to comedy, it’s sad. God forbid you use sarcasm, half the people here won’t understand it and the other half will say it’s not appropriate for healthy discussion…
      - Tempat 2y ago
        Good example in this very discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43477003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43477003
      - bb88 2y ago
        I like this site, but it can become inhuman sometimes. People get upvoted for pedantry rather than furthering a conversation, e.g.
  - DonHopkins 2y ago
    Surprised it isn't fully empty for being upside down!
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  The EU got the drunken version. And a good drunk know not to top of a glass of wine ever. In that context the glass is already "full". But aside from that it would only be comparable if would compare your prompts.
- WaxProlix 2y ago
  Works for me as well https://chatgpt.com/share/67e3f838-63fc-8000-ab94-5d1062639746 https://chatgpt.com/share/67e3f838-63fc-8000-ab94-5d10626397... USA, but VPN set to exit in Canada at time of request (I think).
cruffle_duffle 2y ago
Maybe the "HELL YEAH" added a "party implication" which shifted it's "thinking" into just correct enough latent space that it was able to actually hunt down some image somewhere in its training data of a truly full glass of wine. I almost wonder if prompting it "similar to a full glass of beer" would get it shifted just enough.
dghlsakjg 2y ago
The head of foam on that glass of wine is perfect!
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  I think we're really fscked, because even AI image detectors think the images are genuine. They look great in Photoshop forensics too. I hope the arms race between generators and detectors doesn't stop here.
  - gloosx 2y ago
    We're not. This PNG image of a wine glass has JPEG compression artefacts which are leaking from JPEG training data. You can zoom into the image and you will see 8x8 boundaries of the blocks used in JPEG compression, which just cannot be in a PNG. This is a common method to detect AI-generated image and it is working so far, no need for complex photoshop forensics or AI-detectors, just zoom-in and check for compression - current AI is incapable of getting it right – all the compression algorithms are mixed and mashed in the training data, so on the generated image you can find artefacts from almost all of them if you're lucky, but JPEG is prevalent obviously, lossless images are rare online.
    - londons_explore 2y ago
      plenty of real PNG images have jpeg artifacts because they were once jpegs off someones phone...
    - ASalazarMX 2y ago
      If JPEG compression is the only evident flaw, this kind of reinforces my point, as most of these images will end up shared as processed JPEG/WebP on social media.
      - gloosx 2y ago
        You didn't get it. The image contains ALL compression artifacts from different algorithms mashed up in a single picture, the JPEG is just prevalent.
eitland 2y ago
Most interesting thing to me is the spelling is correct. I'm not a heavy user of AI or image generation in general, so is this also part of the new release or has this been fixed silently since last I tried?
- widerporst 2y ago
  It very much looks like a side effect of this new architecture. In my experience, text looks much better in recent DALL-E images (so what ChatGPT was using before), but it is still noticeably mangled when printing more than a few letters. This model update seems to improve text rendering by a lot, at least as long as the content is clearly specified. However, when giving a prompt that requires the model to come up with the text itself, it still seems to struggle a bit, as can be seen in this hilarious example from the post: https://images.ctfassets.net/kftzwdyauwt9/21nVyfD2KFeriJXUNLbLFN/a54cf3e09e9d3560ec092d4856808769/perodictable.png https://images.ctfassets.net/kftzwdyauwt9/21nVyfD2KFeriJXUNL...
  - remuskaos 2y ago
    The periodic table is absolutely hilarious, I didn't know LLMs had finally mastered absurdist humor.
    - soco 2y ago
      Yeah who wouldn't love a dip in the sulphur pool. But back to the question, why can't such a model recognize letters as such? It cannot be trained to pay special attention to characters? How come it can print an anatomically correct eye but not differentiate between P and Z?
      - londons_explore 2y ago
        I think the model has not decided if it should print a P or a Z, so you end up with something halfway between the two. It's a side effect of the entire model being differentiable - there is always some halfway point.

by meeton 2y ago

Stevvo 2y ago

Can't replicate. Maybe the rollout is staggered? Using Plus from Europe, it's consistently giving me a half full glass.

sionisrecur 2y ago
Maybe it's half empty.
- EgregiousCube 2y ago
  ha
coder543 2y ago
Is it drawing the image from top to bottom very slowly over the course of at least 30 seconds? If not, then you're using DALL-E, not 4o image generation.
- uh_uh 2y ago
  This top to bottom drawing – does this tell us anything about the underlying model architecture? AFAIK diffusion models do not work like that. They denoise the full frame over many steps. In the past there used to be attempts to slowly synthetize a picture by predicting the next pixel, but I wasn't aware whether there has been a shift to that kind of architecture within OpenAI.
  - thesparks 2y ago
    apparently it's not diffusion, but tokens
  - cubefox 2y ago
    Yes, the model card explicitly says it's autoregressive, not diffusion. And it's not a separate model, it's a native ability of GPT-4o, which is a multimodal model. They just didn't made this ability public until now. I assume they worked on the fine-tuning to improve prompt following.
qingcharles 2y ago
You might still be on DALL-E. My account is if you use ChatGPT. I switched over to the sora.com domain and now I have access to it.
- cchance 2y ago
  the free site even has it, just dont turn on image generation it works with it off, if you enable it it uses dall-e
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
amy_petrik 2y ago
I am using Plus from Australia, and while I am not getting a full glass, nor am I getting a half full glass. The glass I'm getting is half empty.
- bb88 2y ago
  That's funny. HN hates funny. Enjoy your shadowban.
  - BlobberSnobber 2y ago
    Yeah. I understand that this site doesn’t want to become Reddit, but it really has an allergy to comedy, it’s sad. God forbid you use sarcasm, half the people here won’t understand it and the other half will say it’s not appropriate for healthy discussion…
    - Tempat 2y ago
      Good example in this very discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43477003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43477003
    - bb88 2y ago
      I like this site, but it can become inhuman sometimes. People get upvoted for pedantry rather than furthering a conversation, e.g.
- DonHopkins 2y ago
  Surprised it isn't fully empty for being upside down!
raxxorraxor 2y ago
The EU got the drunken version. And a good drunk know not to top of a glass of wine ever. In that context the glass is already "full". But aside from that it would only be comparable if would compare your prompts.
WaxProlix 2y ago
Works for me as well https://chatgpt.com/share/67e3f838-63fc-8000-ab94-5d1062639746 https://chatgpt.com/share/67e3f838-63fc-8000-ab94-5d10626397... USA, but VPN set to exit in Canada at time of request (I think).

cruffle_duffle 2y ago

Maybe the "HELL YEAH" added a "party implication" which shifted it's "thinking" into just correct enough latent space that it was able to actually hunt down some image somewhere in its training data of a truly full glass of wine. I almost wonder if prompting it "similar to a full glass of beer" would get it shifted just enough.

dghlsakjg 2y ago

The head of foam on that glass of wine is perfect!

ASalazarMX 2y ago
I think we're really fscked, because even AI image detectors think the images are genuine. They look great in Photoshop forensics too. I hope the arms race between generators and detectors doesn't stop here.
- gloosx 2y ago
  We're not. This PNG image of a wine glass has JPEG compression artefacts which are leaking from JPEG training data. You can zoom into the image and you will see 8x8 boundaries of the blocks used in JPEG compression, which just cannot be in a PNG. This is a common method to detect AI-generated image and it is working so far, no need for complex photoshop forensics or AI-detectors, just zoom-in and check for compression - current AI is incapable of getting it right – all the compression algorithms are mixed and mashed in the training data, so on the generated image you can find artefacts from almost all of them if you're lucky, but JPEG is prevalent obviously, lossless images are rare online.
  - londons_explore 2y ago
    plenty of real PNG images have jpeg artifacts because they were once jpegs off someones phone...
  - ASalazarMX 2y ago
    If JPEG compression is the only evident flaw, this kind of reinforces my point, as most of these images will end up shared as processed JPEG/WebP on social media.
    - gloosx 2y ago
      You didn't get it. The image contains ALL compression artifacts from different algorithms mashed up in a single picture, the JPEG is just prevalent.

eitland 2y ago

Most interesting thing to me is the spelling is correct. I'm not a heavy user of AI or image generation in general, so is this also part of the new release or has this been fixed silently since last I tried?

widerporst 2y ago
It very much looks like a side effect of this new architecture. In my experience, text looks much better in recent DALL-E images (so what ChatGPT was using before), but it is still noticeably mangled when printing more than a few letters. This model update seems to improve text rendering by a lot, at least as long as the content is clearly specified. However, when giving a prompt that requires the model to come up with the text itself, it still seems to struggle a bit, as can be seen in this hilarious example from the post: https://images.ctfassets.net/kftzwdyauwt9/21nVyfD2KFeriJXUNLbLFN/a54cf3e09e9d3560ec092d4856808769/perodictable.png https://images.ctfassets.net/kftzwdyauwt9/21nVyfD2KFeriJXUNL...
- remuskaos 2y ago
  The periodic table is absolutely hilarious, I didn't know LLMs had finally mastered absurdist humor.
  - soco 2y ago
    Yeah who wouldn't love a dip in the sulphur pool. But back to the question, why can't such a model recognize letters as such? It cannot be trained to pay special attention to characters? How come it can print an anatomically correct eye but not differentiate between P and Z?
    - londons_explore 2y ago
      I think the model has not decided if it should print a P or a Z, so you end up with something halfway between the two. It's a side effect of the entire model being differentiable - there is always some halfway point.