4 ms·

> the US also has private prisons. do you understand? e.g., there are about 1000 prisoners in california that are also firefighters getting paid $10 a day. “E.

> the US also has private prisons. do you understand? e.g., there are about 1000 prisoners in california that are also firefighters getting paid $10 a day. “E.g.” is is misused here: California prison firefighters are not an example of private prisons (California does not employ private prisons.) > do you think they cost $10 a day to california? Well, yeah, they are state prisoners in state prisons, whos do you think is paying the $10/day to the prisoners?

decimalenough 2y ago
The previous poster's point is, I presume, that the upkeep of a prisoner costs a hell of a lot more than $10/day. Specifically, the California Dept of Corrections quotes $133,000/year. https://www.lao.ca.gov/PolicyAreas/CJ/6_cj_inmatecost https://www.lao.ca.gov/PolicyAreas/CJ/6_cj_inmatecost
- Terr_ 2y ago
  I'd have less of a problem with prisoners being paid a pittance for helping out if it weren't for how the spending-side of prison commissaries [0] and phone calls [1] are often unconscionably overpriced. [0] https://theappeal.org/locked-in-priced-out-how-much-prison-commissary-prices/ https://theappeal.org/locked-in-priced-out-how-much-prison-c... [1] https://www.vera.org/news/the-fcc-is-capping-outrageous-prison-phone-rates-but-companies-are-still-price-gouging https://www.vera.org/news/the-fcc-is-capping-outrageous-pris...
  - lurk2 2y ago
    In a lot of states, inmates are required to reimburse the state for some portion of the cost of their incarceration. Oddly, the commissary issue strikes me as perverse, but the requirement to cover incarceration costs didn’t, at least once I had thought about it some more. While I am cautious to endorse El Salvador, I think their model is the one to beat: Prisoners are either working or in school, but the goods produced by the prisoners are used by the government to offset costs in other departments, rather than being sold on an open market. For example, they have the prisoners sewing uniforms for public officials, repairing fleets of public vehicles, and building desks for schools. This nominally solves the issue of prison labor being exploited (at least so long as the program remains revenue negative or revenue neutral) without burdening the general public with the cost of incarceration.
almostgotcaught 2y ago
you're partially right (i was mistaken) and only as of very very recently: https://www.thepomonan.com/news/2023/10/2/7investigative-california-banned-private-prisons-but-not-really https://www.thepomonan.com/news/2023/10/2/7investigative-cal... > AB32 included exemptions which allowed private prisons to focus on other profitable "community corrections" programs, such as day reporting centers, counseling facilities, halfway houses, rehabilitation centers, medical offices, and mental health facilities. Currently, these exemptions are worth around $200 million a year. Included are locations that mimic detention facilities and are run by organizations that also run private prisons in California. https://www.ilrc.org/biden-administration-partners-private-prisons-kill-popular-ca-law-end-private-detention https://www.ilrc.org/biden-administration-partners-private-p... > 09/26/2022 > Pasadena, CA - Today, an en banc 11-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that GEO could block California’s AB 32 (People not Profit, Bonta) from going into effect for the duration of the lawsuit, pending further review from District Court. AB 32 is a state law signed in 2019 which banned private prisons and private immigration detention centers in the state. I do not know if this applies to the Conservation (Fire) Camp Program

decimalenough 2y ago

The previous poster's point is, I presume, that the upkeep of a prisoner costs a hell of a lot more than $10/day. Specifically, the California Dept of Corrections quotes $133,000/year. https://www.lao.ca.gov/PolicyAreas/CJ/6_cj_inmatecost https://www.lao.ca.gov/PolicyAreas/CJ/6_cj_inmatecost

Terr_ 2y ago
I'd have less of a problem with prisoners being paid a pittance for helping out if it weren't for how the spending-side of prison commissaries [0] and phone calls [1] are often unconscionably overpriced. [0] https://theappeal.org/locked-in-priced-out-how-much-prison-commissary-prices/ https://theappeal.org/locked-in-priced-out-how-much-prison-c... [1] https://www.vera.org/news/the-fcc-is-capping-outrageous-prison-phone-rates-but-companies-are-still-price-gouging https://www.vera.org/news/the-fcc-is-capping-outrageous-pris...
- lurk2 2y ago
  In a lot of states, inmates are required to reimburse the state for some portion of the cost of their incarceration. Oddly, the commissary issue strikes me as perverse, but the requirement to cover incarceration costs didn’t, at least once I had thought about it some more. While I am cautious to endorse El Salvador, I think their model is the one to beat: Prisoners are either working or in school, but the goods produced by the prisoners are used by the government to offset costs in other departments, rather than being sold on an open market. For example, they have the prisoners sewing uniforms for public officials, repairing fleets of public vehicles, and building desks for schools. This nominally solves the issue of prison labor being exploited (at least so long as the program remains revenue negative or revenue neutral) without burdening the general public with the cost of incarceration.

almostgotcaught 2y ago

you're partially right (i was mistaken) and only as of very very recently: https://www.thepomonan.com/news/2023/10/2/7investigative-california-banned-private-prisons-but-not-really https://www.thepomonan.com/news/2023/10/2/7investigative-cal... > AB32 included exemptions which allowed private prisons to focus on other profitable "community corrections" programs, such as day reporting centers, counseling facilities, halfway houses, rehabilitation centers, medical offices, and mental health facilities. Currently, these exemptions are worth around $200 million a year. Included are locations that mimic detention facilities and are run by organizations that also run private prisons in California. https://www.ilrc.org/biden-administration-partners-private-prisons-kill-popular-ca-law-end-private-detention https://www.ilrc.org/biden-administration-partners-private-p... > 09/26/2022 > Pasadena, CA - Today, an en banc 11-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that GEO could block California’s AB 32 (People not Profit, Bonta) from going into effect for the duration of the lawsuit, pending further review from District Court. AB 32 is a state law signed in 2019 which banned private prisons and private immigration detention centers in the state. I do not know if this applies to the Conservation (Fire) Camp Program