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I think we should definitely expand life into the cosmos. Eventually we will likely find other life and hopefully it doesn't lead to conflict. I have recently

I think we should definitely expand life into the cosmos. Eventually we will likely find other life and hopefully it doesn't lead to conflict. I have recently been listening to the "We Are Legion (We Are Bob)" sci-fi series. It is about a Von Neumann probe [1] that aids humanity in expanding past Earth. I find a lot of it is thought provoking. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft

noizejoy 2y ago
> … find other life and hopefully it doesn't lead to conflict. … well, that would be a first.
- bhouston 2y ago
  Nothing worth doing is easy.
  - rurp 2y ago
    This isn't like trying to start a new workout routine where the worst case scenario is some mild discomfort. The downside of contact with aliens is the obliteration of unique life forms and/or humanity.
    - bhouston 2y ago
      If there are very threatening aliens, I would prefer to expand into the universe and have multiple inhabited planets and meet them being redundant rather than they just happen upon us and destroy us in a single go. Exploring the universe is more interesting anyhow. In the history of human migration, there have always been some who have decided to stay behind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations#/media/File:Early_migrations_mercator.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations#/media/...
sockaddr 2y ago
The bobiverse is such a great series
rurp 2y ago
How could it not lead to conflict? As far as we have seen, different groups always come into conflict. Humans have already driven thousands of species to extinction and show no signs of that ever changing. Maybe an advanced civilization has found a way to reliably enforce peaceful conflict resolution on diverse groups, but it's vastly more likely that an advanced civilization would treat us the same way we treat less powerful groups.
- bhouston 2y ago
  Even the same group as it gets bigger split into factions which fight against themselves. I think this is the nature of trying to have shared control of large groups - consensus just becomes hard and a lot of work. You either get factious fighting or a lack of freedom to have your own opinions. The middle ground where you agree to disagree but still compromise is hard.
rf15 2y ago
"we should definitely expand life into the cosmos." So... an expansionist/colonialist agenda for earth-originating life "oh also hopefully this doesn't lead to conflict" _I wonder._
- greiskul 2y ago
  Expand life into cosmos doesn't imply expanding earth-originating life to countries that already have life. There is definitely possibility for conflict when we encounter other life, be it inteligent or not. But what is wrong with expanding earth-life to planets devoid of life that we terraform?
- DennisP 2y ago
  Do you think fish should not have expanded to dry land? Even that analogy understates things because as far as we know, the rest of the known universe is lifeless rock. Personally I'll admit to being a chauvinist who favors life over non-life. If we find native life somewhere else, I'm all for leaving it alone, but until then, bringing life to a lifeless universe seems like possibly the most meaningful thing we can do as a civilization.
  - phkahler 2y ago
    Some people really hate humanity. They'd rather see the universe stay full of lifeless rocks than have people touch it. I'm all for being cautious if there's something significant out there, but so far we haven't even found anything insignificant.
    - hnuser123456 2y ago
      Does the dark forest hypothesis give you any pause? I also believe we should expand and dark forest is probably unlikely, but it's not ruled out.
      - DennisP 2y ago
        Expansion makes us less vulnerable to a dark forest scenario. As long as we're on one planet, a single relativistic missile can take us out.
LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
I prefer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_the_Lifemaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_the_Lifemaker See the "Prologue: The Searcher" linked from there to get an idea why :)

noizejoy 2y ago

> … find other life and hopefully it doesn't lead to conflict. … well, that would be a first.

bhouston 2y ago
Nothing worth doing is easy.
- rurp 2y ago
  This isn't like trying to start a new workout routine where the worst case scenario is some mild discomfort. The downside of contact with aliens is the obliteration of unique life forms and/or humanity.
  - bhouston 2y ago
    If there are very threatening aliens, I would prefer to expand into the universe and have multiple inhabited planets and meet them being redundant rather than they just happen upon us and destroy us in a single go. Exploring the universe is more interesting anyhow. In the history of human migration, there have always been some who have decided to stay behind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations#/media/File:Early_migrations_mercator.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations#/media/...

sockaddr 2y ago

The bobiverse is such a great series

rurp 2y ago

How could it not lead to conflict? As far as we have seen, different groups always come into conflict. Humans have already driven thousands of species to extinction and show no signs of that ever changing. Maybe an advanced civilization has found a way to reliably enforce peaceful conflict resolution on diverse groups, but it's vastly more likely that an advanced civilization would treat us the same way we treat less powerful groups.

bhouston 2y ago
Even the same group as it gets bigger split into factions which fight against themselves. I think this is the nature of trying to have shared control of large groups - consensus just becomes hard and a lot of work. You either get factious fighting or a lack of freedom to have your own opinions. The middle ground where you agree to disagree but still compromise is hard.

rf15 2y ago

"we should definitely expand life into the cosmos." So... an expansionist/colonialist agenda for earth-originating life "oh also hopefully this doesn't lead to conflict" _I wonder._

greiskul 2y ago
Expand life into cosmos doesn't imply expanding earth-originating life to countries that already have life. There is definitely possibility for conflict when we encounter other life, be it inteligent or not. But what is wrong with expanding earth-life to planets devoid of life that we terraform?
DennisP 2y ago
Do you think fish should not have expanded to dry land? Even that analogy understates things because as far as we know, the rest of the known universe is lifeless rock. Personally I'll admit to being a chauvinist who favors life over non-life. If we find native life somewhere else, I'm all for leaving it alone, but until then, bringing life to a lifeless universe seems like possibly the most meaningful thing we can do as a civilization.
- phkahler 2y ago
  Some people really hate humanity. They'd rather see the universe stay full of lifeless rocks than have people touch it. I'm all for being cautious if there's something significant out there, but so far we haven't even found anything insignificant.
  - hnuser123456 2y ago
    Does the dark forest hypothesis give you any pause? I also believe we should expand and dark forest is probably unlikely, but it's not ruled out.
    - DennisP 2y ago
      Expansion makes us less vulnerable to a dark forest scenario. As long as we're on one planet, a single relativistic missile can take us out.

LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago

I prefer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_the_Lifemaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_the_Lifemaker See the "Prologue: The Searcher" linked from there to get an idea why :)