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Honest question: how is Musk “fascist”? A core feature of historical fascism is a significantly expanded government. For example, under Mussolini’s regime (19

by tlogan 2y ago

Honest question: how is Musk “fascist”? A core feature of historical fascism is a significantly expanded government. For example, under Mussolini’s regime (1922–1943), the Italian state dramatically increased its control over the economy — by 1939, it controlled over 80% of shipping and shipbuilding, and around 75% of iron and steel production. He also significantly expanded the state bureaucracy to enforce fascist ideology — from education to the media. I’m not defending Musk’s behavior or suggesting anything, but labeling him “fascist” doesn’t seem historically accurate.

drcongo 2y ago
> by 1939, it controlled over 80% of shipping and shipbuilding, and around 75% of iron and steel production Not because of fascism, because it needed to ramp up for war.
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  Fascism explicitly includes an economic component. > […] strong regimentation of society and the economy. > "Fascist goals" – the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure […] > Paxton argues: “fascism redrew the frontiers between private and public, sharply diminishing what had once been untouchably private. […] It reconfigured relations between the individual and the collectivity, so that an individual had no rights outside community interest. > The Fascist Manifesto supported the creation of an eight-hour work day for all workers, a minimum wage, worker representation in industrial management, equal confidence in labour unions as in industrial executives and public servants, reorganization of the transportation sector, revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance, reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55, a strong progressive tax on capital, confiscation of the property of religious institutions and abolishment of bishoprics, and revision of military contracts to allow the government to seize 85% of profits. Etc. All quotes taken from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Would you agree to calling him and Trump authoritarian or in support of moving towards an authoritarian regime, then? It is "characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in democracy, separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law." Musk's role is in "Ill-defined executive powers, often vague and shifting, used to extend the power of the executive." (Juan Linz, An Authoritarian Regime: Spain, also yes I'm quoting from wikipedia because why not).
- tlogan 2y ago
  Before calling something authoritarian, ask: who’s actually in control? If a regime can’t control education, is shrinking the size of government, and is expanding individual rights (e.g., gun rights), can it truly be called authoritarian? The issue with much of the modern left is that it often misidentifies the problem. The left should be focused on advocating for the working class and the poor. After all, figures like Trump and Elon Musk clearly align more with the wealthy elite. But the current left seems dominated by affluent, highly educated people, and instead of class-focused politics, it often resorts to dramatic labels that don’t reflect reality. Step one in solving any problem is understanding it. And that starts with asking harder questions, not just repeating slogans.

by tlogan 2y ago

drcongo 2y ago

> by 1939, it controlled over 80% of shipping and shipbuilding, and around 75% of iron and steel production Not because of fascism, because it needed to ramp up for war.

zmgsabst 2y ago
Fascism explicitly includes an economic component. > […] strong regimentation of society and the economy. > "Fascist goals" – the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure […] > Paxton argues: “fascism redrew the frontiers between private and public, sharply diminishing what had once been untouchably private. […] It reconfigured relations between the individual and the collectivity, so that an individual had no rights outside community interest. > The Fascist Manifesto supported the creation of an eight-hour work day for all workers, a minimum wage, worker representation in industrial management, equal confidence in labour unions as in industrial executives and public servants, reorganization of the transportation sector, revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance, reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55, a strong progressive tax on capital, confiscation of the property of religious institutions and abolishment of bishoprics, and revision of military contracts to allow the government to seize 85% of profits. Etc. All quotes taken from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

Would you agree to calling him and Trump authoritarian or in support of moving towards an authoritarian regime, then? It is "characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in democracy, separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law." Musk's role is in "Ill-defined executive powers, often vague and shifting, used to extend the power of the executive." (Juan Linz, An Authoritarian Regime: Spain, also yes I'm quoting from wikipedia because why not).

tlogan 2y ago
Before calling something authoritarian, ask: who’s actually in control? If a regime can’t control education, is shrinking the size of government, and is expanding individual rights (e.g., gun rights), can it truly be called authoritarian? The issue with much of the modern left is that it often misidentifies the problem. The left should be focused on advocating for the working class and the poor. After all, figures like Trump and Elon Musk clearly align more with the wealthy elite. But the current left seems dominated by affluent, highly educated people, and instead of class-focused politics, it often resorts to dramatic labels that don’t reflect reality. Step one in solving any problem is understanding it. And that starts with asking harder questions, not just repeating slogans.