4 ms·

I don't think sodium has a bright future - it's a 3x bigger ion for storing the same amount of charge, which makes it heavier, and the ion's bigger, leading to

I don't think sodium has a bright future - it's a 3x bigger ion for storing the same amount of charge, which makes it heavier, and the ion's bigger, leading to more deformation and damage to the separator, and lower cycle count, while the whole battery's also heavier. Lithium's come down in price enough that its no longer the primary driver of battery cost, so I wouldn't bet on Sodium.

whycome 2y ago
But I think they’re inherently safer? I wouldn’t be surprised if we see some sort of wide ban of lithium batteries on planes at some point. Maybe sodium ones would be allowed and they’d have that specific utility. “AirSafe Power Certified”
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Lithium batteries are already mostly banned on planes. The TSA does not allow lithium batteries in checked luggage and limits the size of lithium batteries in carry on luggage to 100Wh or 2g of lithium. This is the reason that it's very difficult to find a laptop with a battery size larger than 99Wh.
  - wtallis 2y ago
    > The TSA does not allow lithium batteries in checked luggage It's not a complete ban. See https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/all?combine=batteries&page=1 https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/... and https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devices-with-batteries https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devi... and especially this bit: > When portable electronic devices powered by lithium batteries are in checked baggage, they must be completely powered off and protected to prevent unintentional activation or damage. Spare batteries and power banks are strictly required to be carry-on and not in checked baggage, but you can put a laptop in checked baggage as long as it's powered off.
  - whycome 2y ago
    They aren’t close to being banned. They’re explicitly allowed with a defined size/capacity. Even after a recent fire, South Korea just tightened the rules (eg no charging on flights) But they’re still allowed. https://amp.abc.net.au/article/105063388 https://amp.abc.net.au/article/105063388 I think we might just have “AirSafe” certified batteries allowed only at some point. Or TSA approved ones. The ban would make a hell of a lot more sense than liquids
  - sebazzz 2y ago
    > This is the reason that it's very difficult to find a laptop with a battery size larger than 99Wh. I remember when laptops used to have pluggable batteries. You could even take one extra with you, or buy one extended battery with more capacity.
sigmar 2y ago
Surely there's applications where weight doesn't matter much, like home energy storage for solar setups?
- torginus 2y ago
  For home storage, the reduced endurance will be probably what sinks Sodium, imo

whycome 2y ago

But I think they’re inherently safer? I wouldn’t be surprised if we see some sort of wide ban of lithium batteries on planes at some point. Maybe sodium ones would be allowed and they’d have that specific utility. “AirSafe Power Certified”

bryanlarsen 2y ago
Lithium batteries are already mostly banned on planes. The TSA does not allow lithium batteries in checked luggage and limits the size of lithium batteries in carry on luggage to 100Wh or 2g of lithium. This is the reason that it's very difficult to find a laptop with a battery size larger than 99Wh.
- wtallis 2y ago
  > The TSA does not allow lithium batteries in checked luggage It's not a complete ban. See https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/all?combine=batteries&page=1 https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/... and https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devices-with-batteries https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devi... and especially this bit: > When portable electronic devices powered by lithium batteries are in checked baggage, they must be completely powered off and protected to prevent unintentional activation or damage. Spare batteries and power banks are strictly required to be carry-on and not in checked baggage, but you can put a laptop in checked baggage as long as it's powered off.
- whycome 2y ago
  They aren’t close to being banned. They’re explicitly allowed with a defined size/capacity. Even after a recent fire, South Korea just tightened the rules (eg no charging on flights) But they’re still allowed. https://amp.abc.net.au/article/105063388 https://amp.abc.net.au/article/105063388 I think we might just have “AirSafe” certified batteries allowed only at some point. Or TSA approved ones. The ban would make a hell of a lot more sense than liquids
- sebazzz 2y ago
  > This is the reason that it's very difficult to find a laptop with a battery size larger than 99Wh. I remember when laptops used to have pluggable batteries. You could even take one extra with you, or buy one extended battery with more capacity.

sigmar 2y ago

Surely there's applications where weight doesn't matter much, like home energy storage for solar setups?

torginus 2y ago
For home storage, the reduced endurance will be probably what sinks Sodium, imo