4 ms·

Bear in mind the drop in deliveries from Musk's fascist antics isn't even reflected in this data yet due to lag time between sales and delivery.

buyucu 2y ago
I agree, this is probably the effect of more competition from Chinese and other EVs, and the politics is not yet factored in.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  These are figures from Europe. Musk's credibility was significantly damaged in Europe from early 2024, when he became an outspoken supporter of Trump. Two people I know were holding off from purchasing Tesla cars last year, thinking that if Trump lost then the political views of Musk wouldn't really matter any more. As Trump won, one has bought a VW, and the other is continuing to wait.
  - csomar 2y ago
    You can’t compare to the US since the US doesn’t have Chinese cars and Europe does.
jordanb 2y ago
I'm not sure if there's been a lag for a while. I think there's an oversupply now of all Tesla models including Cybertruck.
cyberjerkXX 2y ago
Musk is not a fascist. Fascists don't follow neoclassical economics. Fascism is a very clear and well defined philosophy. None of what is going on fits that definition. He's not even Hegelian.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  Ok cool, hard definitions of facism aside, his decisions and political opinions are not in line with a free and equitable society / civilization.
  - cyberjerkXX 2y ago
    "Free and equitable" - Yes, he's not a socialist. He's a Liberal.
    - archagon 2y ago
      “Musk accuses Trump impeachment witness of ‘treason’ and calls for ‘appropriate penalty’” https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-elon-musk-vindman-treason-impeachment-b2655133.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... Yep, so liberal, doesn’t sound like a fascist even a little.
      - cyberjerkXX 2y ago
        A political squabble in the media is still not fascism... Once again - wake me up when they ban political parties, centralized power to the federal government, install political officers in the public and private sectors, and ban capitalism.
        archagon 2y ago
        So… you want to be woken up when it’s far too late to actually do anything about it?
        cyberjerkXX 2y ago
        Yes - wake me up when there's real fascism and a not political opposition using rhetoric to scare monger their base. You're misrepresenting your political opponents views to justify feeling morally superior. I bet you've never even tried to understand you opposition's point of view in good faith.
tlogan 2y ago
Honest question: how is Musk “fascist”? A core feature of historical fascism is a significantly expanded government. For example, under Mussolini’s regime (1922–1943), the Italian state dramatically increased its control over the economy — by 1939, it controlled over 80% of shipping and shipbuilding, and around 75% of iron and steel production. He also significantly expanded the state bureaucracy to enforce fascist ideology — from education to the media. I’m not defending Musk’s behavior or suggesting anything, but labeling him “fascist” doesn’t seem historically accurate.
- drcongo 2y ago
  > by 1939, it controlled over 80% of shipping and shipbuilding, and around 75% of iron and steel production Not because of fascism, because it needed to ramp up for war.
  - zmgsabst 2y ago
    Fascism explicitly includes an economic component. > […] strong regimentation of society and the economy. > "Fascist goals" – the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure […] > Paxton argues: “fascism redrew the frontiers between private and public, sharply diminishing what had once been untouchably private. […] It reconfigured relations between the individual and the collectivity, so that an individual had no rights outside community interest. > The Fascist Manifesto supported the creation of an eight-hour work day for all workers, a minimum wage, worker representation in industrial management, equal confidence in labour unions as in industrial executives and public servants, reorganization of the transportation sector, revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance, reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55, a strong progressive tax on capital, confiscation of the property of religious institutions and abolishment of bishoprics, and revision of military contracts to allow the government to seize 85% of profits. Etc. All quotes taken from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  Would you agree to calling him and Trump authoritarian or in support of moving towards an authoritarian regime, then? It is "characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in democracy, separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law." Musk's role is in "Ill-defined executive powers, often vague and shifting, used to extend the power of the executive." (Juan Linz, An Authoritarian Regime: Spain, also yes I'm quoting from wikipedia because why not).

buyucu 2y ago

I agree, this is probably the effect of more competition from Chinese and other EVs, and the politics is not yet factored in.

Symbiote 2y ago
These are figures from Europe. Musk's credibility was significantly damaged in Europe from early 2024, when he became an outspoken supporter of Trump. Two people I know were holding off from purchasing Tesla cars last year, thinking that if Trump lost then the political views of Musk wouldn't really matter any more. As Trump won, one has bought a VW, and the other is continuing to wait.
- csomar 2y ago
  You can’t compare to the US since the US doesn’t have Chinese cars and Europe does.

jordanb 2y ago

I'm not sure if there's been a lag for a while. I think there's an oversupply now of all Tesla models including Cybertruck.

cyberjerkXX 2y ago

Musk is not a fascist. Fascists don't follow neoclassical economics. Fascism is a very clear and well defined philosophy. None of what is going on fits that definition. He's not even Hegelian.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Ok cool, hard definitions of facism aside, his decisions and political opinions are not in line with a free and equitable society / civilization.
- cyberjerkXX 2y ago
  "Free and equitable" - Yes, he's not a socialist. He's a Liberal.
  - archagon 2y ago
    “Musk accuses Trump impeachment witness of ‘treason’ and calls for ‘appropriate penalty’” https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-elon-musk-vindman-treason-impeachment-b2655133.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... Yep, so liberal, doesn’t sound like a fascist even a little.
    - cyberjerkXX 2y ago
      A political squabble in the media is still not fascism... Once again - wake me up when they ban political parties, centralized power to the federal government, install political officers in the public and private sectors, and ban capitalism.
      - archagon 2y ago
        So… you want to be woken up when it’s far too late to actually do anything about it?
        cyberjerkXX 2y ago
        Yes - wake me up when there's real fascism and a not political opposition using rhetoric to scare monger their base. You're misrepresenting your political opponents views to justify feeling morally superior. I bet you've never even tried to understand you opposition's point of view in good faith.

tlogan 2y ago

Honest question: how is Musk “fascist”? A core feature of historical fascism is a significantly expanded government. For example, under Mussolini’s regime (1922–1943), the Italian state dramatically increased its control over the economy — by 1939, it controlled over 80% of shipping and shipbuilding, and around 75% of iron and steel production. He also significantly expanded the state bureaucracy to enforce fascist ideology — from education to the media. I’m not defending Musk’s behavior or suggesting anything, but labeling him “fascist” doesn’t seem historically accurate.

drcongo 2y ago
> by 1939, it controlled over 80% of shipping and shipbuilding, and around 75% of iron and steel production Not because of fascism, because it needed to ramp up for war.
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  Fascism explicitly includes an economic component. > […] strong regimentation of society and the economy. > "Fascist goals" – the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure […] > Paxton argues: “fascism redrew the frontiers between private and public, sharply diminishing what had once been untouchably private. […] It reconfigured relations between the individual and the collectivity, so that an individual had no rights outside community interest. > The Fascist Manifesto supported the creation of an eight-hour work day for all workers, a minimum wage, worker representation in industrial management, equal confidence in labour unions as in industrial executives and public servants, reorganization of the transportation sector, revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance, reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55, a strong progressive tax on capital, confiscation of the property of religious institutions and abolishment of bishoprics, and revision of military contracts to allow the government to seize 85% of profits. Etc. All quotes taken from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Would you agree to calling him and Trump authoritarian or in support of moving towards an authoritarian regime, then? It is "characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in democracy, separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law." Musk's role is in "Ill-defined executive powers, often vague and shifting, used to extend the power of the executive." (Juan Linz, An Authoritarian Regime: Spain, also yes I'm quoting from wikipedia because why not).