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Before anyone starts comparing to the US’s DOGE, let it be said that the two countries have virtually nothing in common economically. Argentina has a nearly ce

Before anyone starts comparing to the US’s DOGE, let it be said that the two countries have virtually nothing in common economically. Argentina has a nearly century-long history of economic volatility alternated with stagnation, massive inflation crises, a spell of military dictatorship (after a flirtation with fascism)… Wait a second… (In all seriousness, Argentina is truly unique. As economists say, there are only four kinds of economies in the world: developed, developing, Japan, and Argentina.)

ryandamm 2y ago
Or to put it another way: extreme steps were probably required in Argentina to tackle a truly hidebound, rentier-dominated and corruption riddled government. Inflation expectations were strong and justified. Government deficits were out of control. And the population was truly ready to bear some pain for the sake of reform. (Source: My guide in Argentina this past November; Milei’s approval rating has stayed high despite economic contraction.) Argentina is what Trump’s team imagines the US to be. They’re not the same. EDIT: fixed some typos.
- lezojeda 2y ago
  >Inflation expectations were strong and justified. Government deficits were out of control. And the population was truly ready to bear some pain for the sake of reform We went from 25% inlation where prices changed every single week to discussing whether the government will be able to lower inlation from a monthly 2% (still high, o course). The goal post was moved but I'm just glad not to have prices change every week, it was complete madness. And the 2% is the average, of course, you can find some prices the same as they were 2 months ago.
  - ryandamm 2y ago
    Would love to hear more from Argentinians! Thank you for your perspective.
- adamtaylor_13 2y ago
  Why aren’t they the same? They look the same to me.
  - andybak 2y ago
    Unless you're not looking very hard I presume you're making a polemic point here. i.e. it's not a good faith response to the person you're replying to. They are obviously saying "the differences are significant enough for these measures to be misplaced" and you probably mean something like "I think the differences in these areas are closer than you claim". So - go ahead and make the argument you intended to make so we can engage with it.
    - emmelaich 2y ago
      That which is asserted without evidence can be refuted without evidence. So, how are they different? I'm not even disagreeing, but it needs to be elaborated upon.
      - nindalf 2y ago
        US enjoyed decades of stable 2% inflation per year, but even in the recent spate of inflation it only got as bad as 9% per year. Argentina suffered 25% inflation per month. Did you seriously not know this, or were you just being obtuse?
        emmelaich 2y ago
        I was more referring to the types of economies. Let me help you. Point one, of many: Argentina's economy is more agrarian than the USAs. See? Wasn't that hard.
    - adamtaylor_13 2y ago
      I'm not sure why every conversation about politics on HN brings out everyone's inner asshole. I asked a simple question—how are they different? I'm not being polemic or "making a point". I asked a simple question because I am a simple man and do not understand what makes these situations so different. On the surface, a popular president is voted into office on promises of "cutting government inefficiencies" and then proceeds to do just that. Not sure if that's "not looking very hard", but those look pretty similar to me. I happen to hold my politics very loosely, and so (at the risk of being downvoted by angry HN commenters) I asked, "How are they different?" Sorry I don't spend hours every day reading up on politics and comparing international presidential trends.
arunix 2y ago
What's the difference between Japan and developed?
- palsecam 2y ago
  The “Lost Decades” (1990–2010), during which Japan GDP hardly grew and deflation occured: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades
  - tim333 2y ago
    Prior to that they had an 'economic miracle' from WW2 till then which is probably more what people refer to. The lost decades are quite easy to understand with conventional economics - they had a property and stock bubble which got everyone left with huge debts when it collapsed.
    - palsecam 2y ago
      You have a point, for sure; the _whole_ previous century (couple centuries, even) of Japan economical history is one-of-a-kind (as is Argentina’s). However, wtr. “lost decades are quite easy to understand with conventional economics”: that’s more debatable. For example, stagflation is common(ly explained), but stag-deflation (as in Japan) is more unusual and has weirder effects. The US subprime crisis was also a real estate bubble (which, here also, rippled to the financial markets), but its burst had quite different fallouts. Anyway, thanks for adding to the discussion, and disclaimer: IANAE (I Am Not An Economist — thanks God ^^)

ryandamm 2y ago

Or to put it another way: extreme steps were probably required in Argentina to tackle a truly hidebound, rentier-dominated and corruption riddled government. Inflation expectations were strong and justified. Government deficits were out of control. And the population was truly ready to bear some pain for the sake of reform. (Source: My guide in Argentina this past November; Milei’s approval rating has stayed high despite economic contraction.) Argentina is what Trump’s team imagines the US to be. They’re not the same. EDIT: fixed some typos.

lezojeda 2y ago
>Inflation expectations were strong and justified. Government deficits were out of control. And the population was truly ready to bear some pain for the sake of reform We went from 25% inlation where prices changed every single week to discussing whether the government will be able to lower inlation from a monthly 2% (still high, o course). The goal post was moved but I'm just glad not to have prices change every week, it was complete madness. And the 2% is the average, of course, you can find some prices the same as they were 2 months ago.
- ryandamm 2y ago
  Would love to hear more from Argentinians! Thank you for your perspective.
adamtaylor_13 2y ago
Why aren’t they the same? They look the same to me.
- andybak 2y ago
  Unless you're not looking very hard I presume you're making a polemic point here. i.e. it's not a good faith response to the person you're replying to. They are obviously saying "the differences are significant enough for these measures to be misplaced" and you probably mean something like "I think the differences in these areas are closer than you claim". So - go ahead and make the argument you intended to make so we can engage with it.
  - emmelaich 2y ago
    That which is asserted without evidence can be refuted without evidence. So, how are they different? I'm not even disagreeing, but it needs to be elaborated upon.
    - nindalf 2y ago
      US enjoyed decades of stable 2% inflation per year, but even in the recent spate of inflation it only got as bad as 9% per year. Argentina suffered 25% inflation per month. Did you seriously not know this, or were you just being obtuse?
      - emmelaich 2y ago
        I was more referring to the types of economies. Let me help you. Point one, of many: Argentina's economy is more agrarian than the USAs. See? Wasn't that hard.
  - adamtaylor_13 2y ago
    I'm not sure why every conversation about politics on HN brings out everyone's inner asshole. I asked a simple question—how are they different? I'm not being polemic or "making a point". I asked a simple question because I am a simple man and do not understand what makes these situations so different. On the surface, a popular president is voted into office on promises of "cutting government inefficiencies" and then proceeds to do just that. Not sure if that's "not looking very hard", but those look pretty similar to me. I happen to hold my politics very loosely, and so (at the risk of being downvoted by angry HN commenters) I asked, "How are they different?" Sorry I don't spend hours every day reading up on politics and comparing international presidential trends.

arunix 2y ago

What's the difference between Japan and developed?

palsecam 2y ago
The “Lost Decades” (1990–2010), during which Japan GDP hardly grew and deflation occured: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades
- tim333 2y ago
  Prior to that they had an 'economic miracle' from WW2 till then which is probably more what people refer to. The lost decades are quite easy to understand with conventional economics - they had a property and stock bubble which got everyone left with huge debts when it collapsed.
  - palsecam 2y ago
    You have a point, for sure; the _whole_ previous century (couple centuries, even) of Japan economical history is one-of-a-kind (as is Argentina’s). However, wtr. “lost decades are quite easy to understand with conventional economics”: that’s more debatable. For example, stagflation is common(ly explained), but stag-deflation (as in Japan) is more unusual and has weirder effects. The US subprime crisis was also a real estate bubble (which, here also, rippled to the financial markets), but its burst had quite different fallouts. Anyway, thanks for adding to the discussion, and disclaimer: IANAE (I Am Not An Economist — thanks God ^^)