I don't disagree with any of that. What I am saying is that Objects are not rows. And we sometimes try to force the Object model onto a data-schema that ultima

I don't disagree with any of that. What I am saying is that Objects are not rows. And we sometimes try to force the Object model onto a data-schema that ultimately is more rich than a chain of objects. Which is not using the most appropriate tool for the job, per your example. An ORM is _fine_ for stuff that has a fairly standard shape, like blob posts, user accounts, things like that. Lots of relation questions against persisted data end up not being those exact shapes and patterns yet folks generally reach for the ORM.