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Rust and JS threads are on topic for the site, most current events stuff is not. is killing the possibility of a long-running, evolving discourse on important

by pvg 2y ago

Rust and JS threads are on topic for the site, most current events stuff is not. is killing the possibility of a long-running, evolving discourse on important topics. These topics have been the most discussed topics on HN the last couple of months by a massive margin. The quality of 'discourse' has been abysmal so we know empirically the 'evolution' theory/hope is misplaced.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Tadpole9181 2y ago
[flagged]
MegaButts 2y ago
> These topics have been the most discussed topics on HN the last couple of months by a massive margin. Have any of these topics managed to not be censored via flagging? From my perspective, I have very much wanted to talk about these things on HN and despite checking multiple times a day I have never been able to engage in an ongoing discussion (by which I mean the post wasn't removed from the front page due to flagging, effectively limiting the visibility it would otherwise get from organic upvotes). You're entitled to dislike these topics and to flag them. And I'm entitled to think you're actively making HN worse with your gatekeeping. The problem with flagging is it gives more weight to a smaller group. I don't know the weighing exactly, but I'd guess flagging is 10-100x more effective than regular voting. So in theory just 1-10% of people have the ability to censor topics they don't like. Kinda seems like the antithesis of what's "interesting" to me. And yes, I absolutely 100% would prefer contentious "go fuck yourself" arguments on politics than not being allowed to discuss it in good faith at all.
- tptacek 2y ago
  The "smaller group" here is anyone with over 500 karma. You're going to have to find some other place to have "contentious go-fuck-yourself arguments" --- about literally anything --- because they are anathema to curious conversation, which is the overriding goal of this site. That goal isn't changing just because we're all activated about politics right now, just like it wasn't in 2017.
  - MegaButts 2y ago
    We just fundamentally disagree. From my perspective you are the antithesis of curious conversation by censoring topics you don't want to discuss. I don't want to read the latest update on some dumb framework but I don't flag the post. Also getting 500 karma on HN isn't hard.
    - tptacek 2y ago
      Right, my point is, it's not in fact a small group of people.
      - MegaButts 2y ago
        Getting 500 karma is a trivial task and not some tiny group. Are there any HN regulars (that don't just lurk) that don't have that much karma? The point is a flag has higher weight than an upvote, and it's easy to get the ability to flag posts.
        tptacek 2y ago
        Right, again, my point: the cohort of people who can be flagging these articles is quite large. It's not a small number of gatekeeping old-timers.
        MegaButts 2y ago
        dang has admitted that flagging carries more weight than voting, we just don't know what the weighing is.
        tptacek 2y ago
        Sure, sounds right.
        MegaButts 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- defrost 2y ago
  A better question is: Have any of these topics managed to be censored via flagging? They are all still present, a good many are still active .. you seem to equate "not on front page" with "censored". See: https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active and (for example DOGE, last month): https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byPopularity&type=story&query=Doge https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=fa...
  - MegaButts 2y ago
    “But the plans were on display…” “On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.” “That’s the display department.” “With a flashlight.” “Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.” “So had the stairs.” “But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.” ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
- pvg 2y ago
  These stories have been on the front page multiple times, yes. You're entitled to dislike these topics and to flag them. And I'm entitled to think you're actively making HN worse with your gatekeeping. I like these topics just fine. I don't particularly like them filling up HN because HN is pretty bad at them and it's bad at them in a pointedly tedious, repetitive way. "pointedly tedious and repetitive" is the most offtopic thing on HN. But for any story you feel should get more exposure, you can email the site mods and make the case for it. This happens all the time. And yes, I absolutely 100% would prefer contentious "go fuck yourself" arguments on politics Well, as you say, you're entitled to prefer that but that's not the sort of messageboard this is. But again, you can make the case for changing that but it seems pretty uphill. Yelly messageboards are a dime a dozen and many HN participants are here because this one is slightly less yelly.

by pvg 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Tadpole9181 2y ago

[flagged]

MegaButts 2y ago

> These topics have been the most discussed topics on HN the last couple of months by a massive margin. Have any of these topics managed to not be censored via flagging? From my perspective, I have very much wanted to talk about these things on HN and despite checking multiple times a day I have never been able to engage in an ongoing discussion (by which I mean the post wasn't removed from the front page due to flagging, effectively limiting the visibility it would otherwise get from organic upvotes). You're entitled to dislike these topics and to flag them. And I'm entitled to think you're actively making HN worse with your gatekeeping. The problem with flagging is it gives more weight to a smaller group. I don't know the weighing exactly, but I'd guess flagging is 10-100x more effective than regular voting. So in theory just 1-10% of people have the ability to censor topics they don't like. Kinda seems like the antithesis of what's "interesting" to me. And yes, I absolutely 100% would prefer contentious "go fuck yourself" arguments on politics than not being allowed to discuss it in good faith at all.

tptacek 2y ago
The "smaller group" here is anyone with over 500 karma. You're going to have to find some other place to have "contentious go-fuck-yourself arguments" --- about literally anything --- because they are anathema to curious conversation, which is the overriding goal of this site. That goal isn't changing just because we're all activated about politics right now, just like it wasn't in 2017.
- MegaButts 2y ago
  We just fundamentally disagree. From my perspective you are the antithesis of curious conversation by censoring topics you don't want to discuss. I don't want to read the latest update on some dumb framework but I don't flag the post. Also getting 500 karma on HN isn't hard.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    Right, my point is, it's not in fact a small group of people.
    - MegaButts 2y ago
      Getting 500 karma is a trivial task and not some tiny group. Are there any HN regulars (that don't just lurk) that don't have that much karma? The point is a flag has higher weight than an upvote, and it's easy to get the ability to flag posts.
      - tptacek 2y ago
        Right, again, my point: the cohort of people who can be flagging these articles is quite large. It's not a small number of gatekeeping old-timers.
        MegaButts 2y ago
        dang has admitted that flagging carries more weight than voting, we just don't know what the weighing is.
        tptacek 2y ago
        Sure, sounds right.
        MegaButts 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
defrost 2y ago
A better question is: Have any of these topics managed to be censored via flagging? They are all still present, a good many are still active .. you seem to equate "not on front page" with "censored". See: https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active and (for example DOGE, last month): https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byPopularity&type=story&query=Doge https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=fa...
- MegaButts 2y ago
  “But the plans were on display…” “On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.” “That’s the display department.” “With a flashlight.” “Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.” “So had the stairs.” “But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.” ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
pvg 2y ago
These stories have been on the front page multiple times, yes. You're entitled to dislike these topics and to flag them. And I'm entitled to think you're actively making HN worse with your gatekeeping. I like these topics just fine. I don't particularly like them filling up HN because HN is pretty bad at them and it's bad at them in a pointedly tedious, repetitive way. "pointedly tedious and repetitive" is the most offtopic thing on HN. But for any story you feel should get more exposure, you can email the site mods and make the case for it. This happens all the time. And yes, I absolutely 100% would prefer contentious "go fuck yourself" arguments on politics Well, as you say, you're entitled to prefer that but that's not the sort of messageboard this is. But again, you can make the case for changing that but it seems pretty uphill. Yelly messageboards are a dime a dozen and many HN participants are here because this one is slightly less yelly.