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That's a lot of consideration from someone who transitioned from hands-on farm work to ML, but I’d propose a simpler take: sensorimotor loop integration is a co

That's a lot of consideration from someone who transitioned from hands-on farm work to ML, but I’d propose a simpler take: sensorimotor loop integration is a core brain function. When we spend years extremely prioritizing logic and verbal tasks while neglecting physical/sensory engagement, the brain naturally craves that activation to stay balanced. The author’s focus on American mythos psychoanalysis feels like an overcomplication that misses the point of what might be a basic biological need. Maybe I’m missing nuance, but this blogspot was disappointing and felt intellectually cowardly. The author gives strong wordcel vibes, it's sad to read tbh.

morleytj 2y ago
Your point is a bit strangely stated. If just doing physical activity and sensory engagement is all you think a person needs to balance, why not just lift weights or go for a run? Why fantasize about milking a cow? There's clearly more to this, in my opinion. And no real insult taken if you see me as being pretty verbal, I am, though I can rotate a shape too as evidenced through my job.
- sinenomine 2y ago
  No, you miss the point. My point is very low-level biological in nature: the neocortex is a cognitive system which developed via evolution to process complex sensorimotor loops. Very recently in the history of our species it was imperfectly repurposed for planning, reasoning and verbal intelligence, the complete adaptation still ongoing. Our current neocortex usage pattern in the occupations you analyzed differs drastically from ancestral usage pattern which is likely more in line with intrinsic reinforcement pressure (presumably touch and sensorimotor engagement is a large part of it), again built into our neocortex via evolution. Why fantasize about milking a cow? The yearning for applying one's intelligence, problem solving skills, cognition etc in this naturalistic context is just a high-level conscious representation of the ache some parts of neocortex feel when they don't get enough intrinsic reward, similar to feeling touch-starved. The associated mental imagery of touch-, body-, and vision-heavy activities which finds and incentivizes its online media correlate likely directly triggers some part of this desired sensorimotor integration. This phenomenon is likely shared between e.g. US and Russian population as you mention, as it is less culturally dependent and more biologically determined than you find palatable to admit. Now to psychoanalyze you a bit (feel free to apply the method to me, I will be amused): you grew up on the farm and disliked forced manual labor (conditioning via negative reinforcement) which did not stress your superior verbal intelligence enough, also you habituated to the farm & natural environment and this happened during critical periods of development, so the associated opinions are likely an integral part of your identity. The farm is a closed, finished gestalt for you, unlike for a typical software engineer from middle class urban family (to deter too obvious reverse psychoanalysis: I have spent 30% of my childhood and adolescence in countryside, so I'm not a typical SV case either). You followed your intrinsic reinforcement which is mostly verbal, went through higher ed and ended up in lucrative position: this strongly reinforced the associated identity and worldview and you applied your verbal iq to write that blogpost trying your hand in writing a think piece (a genre associated with american brand of public intellectualism I could write a critical essay about, but won't), which, again, I find intellectually disappointing due to, at least, either a blindspot, negative disposition to, or professionally motivated disdain for discussion of the underlying neuroscience & biology of the matter, which would at least be interesting. You say you can also rotate shapes, but it's obvious from your writing that you revel in playing with words and narratives first, all the rest is secondary. I found it so revolting for a person of our level of intelligence, I had to get out of read-only to comment on this. I also revel a bit in contrived language I use to deliver this, feel free to untangle it as you wish. I REPEAT: THE ROAD TO [SECULAR] HELL IS PAVED WITH VERBAL INTRINSIC REINFORCEMENT SIGNALING. The econ-brained bs undercurrent and psychoanalysis angle on this with a fuckin Hofstadter quote is a cherry on the cake made of rationalization interlayered with cope. You would make a fine PoMo literary critic, and honestly that would be the right field to apply your talent. If you were intellectually fair while exploring this, you would end up like him: https://webperso.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/decon.html https://webperso.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/decon.html You can play with words all you like, but do not pretend seeking truth while doing so. Read the game of glass beads and think about it, it might save your soul. Cука за живое задел, блять. Ненавижу ваши офисы ёбаные и сьебался от них в горы к морю уже, очень нравится: https://files.catbox.moe/6fcu5w.mp4 https://files.catbox.moe/6fcu5w.mp4 траву потрогал fyi https://files.catbox.moe/9sd2o5.MOV https://files.catbox.moe/9sd2o5.MOV
  - tryauuum 2y ago
    wow, that's a nice rant How do you say "I REPEAT: THE ROAD TO [SECULAR] HELL IS PAVED WITH VERBAL INTRINSIC REINFORCEMENT SIGNALING" in russian? I think I would understand it better in russian

morleytj 2y ago

Your point is a bit strangely stated. If just doing physical activity and sensory engagement is all you think a person needs to balance, why not just lift weights or go for a run? Why fantasize about milking a cow? There's clearly more to this, in my opinion. And no real insult taken if you see me as being pretty verbal, I am, though I can rotate a shape too as evidenced through my job.

sinenomine 2y ago
No, you miss the point. My point is very low-level biological in nature: the neocortex is a cognitive system which developed via evolution to process complex sensorimotor loops. Very recently in the history of our species it was imperfectly repurposed for planning, reasoning and verbal intelligence, the complete adaptation still ongoing. Our current neocortex usage pattern in the occupations you analyzed differs drastically from ancestral usage pattern which is likely more in line with intrinsic reinforcement pressure (presumably touch and sensorimotor engagement is a large part of it), again built into our neocortex via evolution. Why fantasize about milking a cow? The yearning for applying one's intelligence, problem solving skills, cognition etc in this naturalistic context is just a high-level conscious representation of the ache some parts of neocortex feel when they don't get enough intrinsic reward, similar to feeling touch-starved. The associated mental imagery of touch-, body-, and vision-heavy activities which finds and incentivizes its online media correlate likely directly triggers some part of this desired sensorimotor integration. This phenomenon is likely shared between e.g. US and Russian population as you mention, as it is less culturally dependent and more biologically determined than you find palatable to admit. Now to psychoanalyze you a bit (feel free to apply the method to me, I will be amused): you grew up on the farm and disliked forced manual labor (conditioning via negative reinforcement) which did not stress your superior verbal intelligence enough, also you habituated to the farm & natural environment and this happened during critical periods of development, so the associated opinions are likely an integral part of your identity. The farm is a closed, finished gestalt for you, unlike for a typical software engineer from middle class urban family (to deter too obvious reverse psychoanalysis: I have spent 30% of my childhood and adolescence in countryside, so I'm not a typical SV case either). You followed your intrinsic reinforcement which is mostly verbal, went through higher ed and ended up in lucrative position: this strongly reinforced the associated identity and worldview and you applied your verbal iq to write that blogpost trying your hand in writing a think piece (a genre associated with american brand of public intellectualism I could write a critical essay about, but won't), which, again, I find intellectually disappointing due to, at least, either a blindspot, negative disposition to, or professionally motivated disdain for discussion of the underlying neuroscience & biology of the matter, which would at least be interesting. You say you can also rotate shapes, but it's obvious from your writing that you revel in playing with words and narratives first, all the rest is secondary. I found it so revolting for a person of our level of intelligence, I had to get out of read-only to comment on this. I also revel a bit in contrived language I use to deliver this, feel free to untangle it as you wish. I REPEAT: THE ROAD TO [SECULAR] HELL IS PAVED WITH VERBAL INTRINSIC REINFORCEMENT SIGNALING. The econ-brained bs undercurrent and psychoanalysis angle on this with a fuckin Hofstadter quote is a cherry on the cake made of rationalization interlayered with cope. You would make a fine PoMo literary critic, and honestly that would be the right field to apply your talent. If you were intellectually fair while exploring this, you would end up like him: https://webperso.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/decon.html https://webperso.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/decon.html You can play with words all you like, but do not pretend seeking truth while doing so. Read the game of glass beads and think about it, it might save your soul. Cука за живое задел, блять. Ненавижу ваши офисы ёбаные и сьебался от них в горы к морю уже, очень нравится: https://files.catbox.moe/6fcu5w.mp4 https://files.catbox.moe/6fcu5w.mp4 траву потрогал fyi https://files.catbox.moe/9sd2o5.MOV https://files.catbox.moe/9sd2o5.MOV
- tryauuum 2y ago
  wow, that's a nice rant How do you say "I REPEAT: THE ROAD TO [SECULAR] HELL IS PAVED WITH VERBAL INTRINSIC REINFORCEMENT SIGNALING" in russian? I think I would understand it better in russian