8 ms·

Again...this is why you never ever consent to a search. You have nothing to gain from consenting to a search or talking to a police officer. There is no way a

Again...this is why you never ever consent to a search. You have nothing to gain from consenting to a search or talking to a police officer. There is no way any person can be aware of all federal and local regulations. It is best to avoid possible self incrimination at all costs.

tptacek 14y ago
I agree; also, this would have been a much more compelling story, and still totally suitable for _Reason_, if the moral had been "NEVER CONSENT TO SEARCHES" instead of "DRUG LAWS ARE RUINING PEOPLE'S LIVES". (Again: that's because drug laws are ruining people's lives; just, not this guy's.) A rule of thumb: if the police ask to search your car, they're not automatically allowed to --- or they wouldn't ask. "Because we weren't carrying drugs" is a terrible reason to allow a search. Actually, "because I've never done drugs" is also a terrible reason. Get the wrong officer, and they will interpret the crap on your floor as "residue" and call in a drug dog; police drug dogs are scams --- the police can get them to bark any time they want. Your life won't be ruined when this happens, but you'll lose a lot of time. Just say "Excuse me. I do not consent to any search. I'm sorry, officer. I do not consent to any search."
- mullingitover 14y ago
  > Just say "Excuse me. I do not consent to any search. I'm sorry, officer. I do not consent to any search." This is a very optimistic take on the police. A likely outcome would be for the police to hold you on the spot while they bring in a K9 unit. From there, the police interpret the dog's actions to indicate drugs will be found in the car, and from there it's probable cause and you're getting searched anyway. Only instead of a brief search you get the car gutted and worked over with a fine-toothed comb.
  - grecy 14y ago
    And I wonder if they end up finding something (or think they do) will you be in more trouble for "resisting search" ?
    - tptacek 14y ago
      "Resisting search"? I'm not sure that means anything. You have absolutely no right to "resist" a search. If the cops demand to unlawfully search your vehicle, let them. Even if their search is unlawful, you will be charged if you in any way attempt to physically prevent them from conducting the search. Your protections against unlawful searches come later in the legal process, when evidence obtained from those searches is thrown out of court. Meanwhile, you can (if you are an idiot) bellow your refusal to consent to search at the top of your lungs, laced with expletives, and (apart from whatever comes from gratuitously pissing off the cops) you haven't committed any crime I'm aware of.
      - grecy 14y ago
        Sorry, that's not exactly what I was talking about. I meant to say if you simply say "I'm sorry officer, I don't consent to this search", then they bring a dog, find a "hit", search, find something and arrest you. I wonder if the fact you denied them permission to search you in the first place can be used to make things look worse later on in court?
        tptacek 14y ago
        I'm not sure how. Refusing to consent to a search isn't evidence. Officers will tell you that by consenting to a search, they'll look kindly on you when it's time to use their discretion. Maybe if you just consent, they'll suggest, they'll only book you for a misdemeanor. That is, as they say, one of the oldest tricks in the book. Once you're arrested, it's up to the prosecutor to charge you, and their overriding prerogative is finding the optimal balance of "maximal penalty" and "minimal prosecutorial effort".
        grecy 14y ago
        Thanks. > That is, as they say, one of the oldest tricks in the book. I'm naive when it comes to dealing with Police, so my natural tendency is to cooperate now in the hope it causes less trouble later. Thanks for the info, I need to adjust my approach.
  - Locke1689 14y ago
    The DoJ has recently ruled that recording the police is a constitutionally protected right. If you want, you could record the K9 unit outside your car. If anything improper happens, this is cause to throw out the evidence in court. Of course, if the dog finds drugs because there are drugs in your car... well, don't carry drugs in your car.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      Know of course that the DoJ can rule whatever it wants; the DoJ does not have total authority over state prosecutors. Recording the police in states that don't condone it can still get you in a lot of trouble.
      - Locke1689 14y ago
        Definitely true, but it appears like the DoJ opinions are viewed as strong suggestions to local law enforcement. I guess the question is whether you want to risk fighting a case which you will probably win.
    - thaumaturgy 14y ago
      It's difficult to record the police if you're handcuffed and sitting on the hood of their cruiser, which they have the right to do for just about any reason. Whether this actually happens or not seems to depend mostly on the officer -- some are really cool about it, some are really not.
      - Locke1689 14y ago
        What's the case law on this? I thought they were only allowed to cuff suspects in custody, not simply being detained.
        thaumaturgy 14y ago
        I am not an attorney; it would be stupid of me to speculate further (and stupid of you to listen to me :-). Here's a for-instance though: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/06/police-stop-handcuff-every-adult-at-intersection-in-search-for-bank-robber/ http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/06/police-stop-ha...
  - AaronMell 14y ago
    you do have to remember though, that its much easier for a lawyer to get the charges dropped if you refuse to consent to search regardless of being innocent or guilty of breaking the law.
- Permit 14y ago
  You're prescribing a bandaid solution to what is a much deeper problem. The reason you're avoiding a search is to prevent the system from screwing you over so deeply and completely. Where does this leave individuals like those in the original post? Correct me if I'm wrong but your opinion seems to be that because he didn't know his right you can't feel sorry for him. This suggests to me that the punishment for not knowing the law is being subject to the law in all its ineptitude. You're solving the wrong problem. What really concerns me is that you do it with such conviction.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Drug laws are bad.

tptacek 14y ago

I agree; also, this would have been a much more compelling story, and still totally suitable for _Reason_, if the moral had been "NEVER CONSENT TO SEARCHES" instead of "DRUG LAWS ARE RUINING PEOPLE'S LIVES". (Again: that's because drug laws are ruining people's lives; just, not this guy's.) A rule of thumb: if the police ask to search your car, they're not automatically allowed to --- or they wouldn't ask. "Because we weren't carrying drugs" is a terrible reason to allow a search. Actually, "because I've never done drugs" is also a terrible reason. Get the wrong officer, and they will interpret the crap on your floor as "residue" and call in a drug dog; police drug dogs are scams --- the police can get them to bark any time they want. Your life won't be ruined when this happens, but you'll lose a lot of time. Just say "Excuse me. I do not consent to any search. I'm sorry, officer. I do not consent to any search."

mullingitover 14y ago
> Just say "Excuse me. I do not consent to any search. I'm sorry, officer. I do not consent to any search." This is a very optimistic take on the police. A likely outcome would be for the police to hold you on the spot while they bring in a K9 unit. From there, the police interpret the dog's actions to indicate drugs will be found in the car, and from there it's probable cause and you're getting searched anyway. Only instead of a brief search you get the car gutted and worked over with a fine-toothed comb.
- grecy 14y ago
  And I wonder if they end up finding something (or think they do) will you be in more trouble for "resisting search" ?
  - tptacek 14y ago
    "Resisting search"? I'm not sure that means anything. You have absolutely no right to "resist" a search. If the cops demand to unlawfully search your vehicle, let them. Even if their search is unlawful, you will be charged if you in any way attempt to physically prevent them from conducting the search. Your protections against unlawful searches come later in the legal process, when evidence obtained from those searches is thrown out of court. Meanwhile, you can (if you are an idiot) bellow your refusal to consent to search at the top of your lungs, laced with expletives, and (apart from whatever comes from gratuitously pissing off the cops) you haven't committed any crime I'm aware of.
    - grecy 14y ago
      Sorry, that's not exactly what I was talking about. I meant to say if you simply say "I'm sorry officer, I don't consent to this search", then they bring a dog, find a "hit", search, find something and arrest you. I wonder if the fact you denied them permission to search you in the first place can be used to make things look worse later on in court?
      - tptacek 14y ago
        I'm not sure how. Refusing to consent to a search isn't evidence. Officers will tell you that by consenting to a search, they'll look kindly on you when it's time to use their discretion. Maybe if you just consent, they'll suggest, they'll only book you for a misdemeanor. That is, as they say, one of the oldest tricks in the book. Once you're arrested, it's up to the prosecutor to charge you, and their overriding prerogative is finding the optimal balance of "maximal penalty" and "minimal prosecutorial effort".
        grecy 14y ago
        Thanks. > That is, as they say, one of the oldest tricks in the book. I'm naive when it comes to dealing with Police, so my natural tendency is to cooperate now in the hope it causes less trouble later. Thanks for the info, I need to adjust my approach.
- Locke1689 14y ago
  The DoJ has recently ruled that recording the police is a constitutionally protected right. If you want, you could record the K9 unit outside your car. If anything improper happens, this is cause to throw out the evidence in court. Of course, if the dog finds drugs because there are drugs in your car... well, don't carry drugs in your car.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Know of course that the DoJ can rule whatever it wants; the DoJ does not have total authority over state prosecutors. Recording the police in states that don't condone it can still get you in a lot of trouble.
    - Locke1689 14y ago
      Definitely true, but it appears like the DoJ opinions are viewed as strong suggestions to local law enforcement. I guess the question is whether you want to risk fighting a case which you will probably win.
  - thaumaturgy 14y ago
    It's difficult to record the police if you're handcuffed and sitting on the hood of their cruiser, which they have the right to do for just about any reason. Whether this actually happens or not seems to depend mostly on the officer -- some are really cool about it, some are really not.
    - Locke1689 14y ago
      What's the case law on this? I thought they were only allowed to cuff suspects in custody, not simply being detained.
      - thaumaturgy 14y ago
        I am not an attorney; it would be stupid of me to speculate further (and stupid of you to listen to me :-). Here's a for-instance though: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/06/police-stop-handcuff-every-adult-at-intersection-in-search-for-bank-robber/ http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/06/police-stop-ha...
- AaronMell 14y ago
  you do have to remember though, that its much easier for a lawyer to get the charges dropped if you refuse to consent to search regardless of being innocent or guilty of breaking the law.
Permit 14y ago
You're prescribing a bandaid solution to what is a much deeper problem. The reason you're avoiding a search is to prevent the system from screwing you over so deeply and completely. Where does this leave individuals like those in the original post? Correct me if I'm wrong but your opinion seems to be that because he didn't know his right you can't feel sorry for him. This suggests to me that the punishment for not knowing the law is being subject to the law in all its ineptitude. You're solving the wrong problem. What really concerns me is that you do it with such conviction.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Drug laws are bad.