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If 39 pages is too much for you, there's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Whitecoat#Seventh-day_Adventists_and_Operation_Whitecoat https://en.wikipedia.o

If 39 pages is too much for you, there's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Whitecoat#Seventh-day_Adventists_and_Operation_Whitecoat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Whitecoat#Seventh-da... """ Over the course of the 19-year program, more than 2,300 U.S. Army soldiers, many of whom were trained medics, contributed to the Whitecoat experiments by allowing themselves to be infected with numerous different kinds of bacteria that were considered likely choices for a biological attack. While some volunteered immediately after basic training, for conscientious objectors at Ft. Sam Houston, Texas (before they began their medic training), the near certainty of being assigned as a combat medic in Vietnam helped some medics choose instead to remain in the United States with the Whitecoat program. The goal of the program was to determine dose response for these agents. """ I attended an SDA high school and was a member of the church for a couple years in college (I dated an SDA woman). It was interesting that they had a ton of dentists, doctors, etc. and ran well-regarded medical schools, but also espoused young Earth creationism. They also were generally suspicious of government involvement in religion, with many worried about a "national Sunday law" and being disallowed from worshipping on Saturday. Conversely, this generally included a desire for religion not to get too involved in government, which I respected quite a lot. I never really believed, and left the church after breaking up, but I really miss the sense of community. Every Saturday I'd go to a service with a boring sermon but some _fantastic_ singing (the entire congregation could, and did, sing, and those walls rang with "Down By The River To Pray" in 4 part harmony), then have a vegetarian (albeit cheesy) potluck after, and then just chill at the beach with friends. Society would do well to adopt the sabbath as a cultural practice. The minister where I was seemed pretty chill with marriage equality - I remember he gave a sermon about marriage while people protested California's prop 8 outside and he pointed out how badly LGBT couple wanted marriage at the same time others took it for granted. I wonder if it's still like that.

dataviz1000 2y ago
> California Adventists have higher life expectancies at the age of 30 years than other white Californians by 7.28 years (95% confidence interval, 6.59-7.97 years) in men and by 4.42 years (95% confidence interval, 3.96-4.88 years) in women, giving them perhaps the highest life expectancy of any formally described population. [0] SDA live a lot longer. The SDA vegetarian diet was also the driving force behind the Kellogg's Cereal company [1] [0] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/648593 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Keith_Kellogg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Keith_Kellogg
- CalRobert 2y ago
  Vegetarian diet, abstinence from alcohol and smoking, and maybe most of all pretty strong (albeit also quite insular) communities. They seemed to be pretty well-off too, for the most part.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    I can only imagine how much better a person does in college when they're not drinking or smoking and perhaps even minimizing their promiscuity. That's gotta improve their chances against over 90% of their peers, at least, I imagine. "Youth is wasted on the young" is only true because our youth are not taught how to not conserve and utilize their energy.
    - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
      I never got into drinking and smoking, but I wish I'd been a little promiscuous in college. I'm pretty hung up on it
      - MrMcCall 2y ago
        Yeah, it's difficult to find the middle path between too much and too little. Those little mental gremlins always try to push us too far in the opposite direction. It's the nature of our internal enemy, the enemy of both our inner peace and happiness and our outer peace and happiness with other people. Peace be with you, friend.
    - Brybry 2y ago
      Anecdotally, I didn't smoke or drink and was celibate during college and I dropped out twice. My sister drank a lot and was very promiscuous and went on to become a doctor. I think doing well in college is probably more about factors like time management skills and social support network than about vices.
      - MrMcCall 2y ago
ToucanLoucan 2y ago
> It was interesting that they had a ton of dentists, doctors, etc. and ran well-regarded medical schools, but also espoused young Earth creationism. Creationism is a canned joke ideological point that American Christians of all types seemingly can't get enough of. It's hilariously bad "science" at the very best, and outright farce at the worst. But for some reason simply acknowledging evolution is, seemingly as of the last 20 years or so, utterly untenable, and so they perform. > They also were generally suspicious of government involvement in religion, with many worried about a "national Sunday law" and being disallowed from worshipping on Saturday. I mean that just sounds like garden variety Christian persecution complex to me. I don't think a certain segment of the Christian population can properly reckon with reality if they don't feel they are being somehow oppressed despite running... basically everything.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  The origin the dispute is not so much arguing that Genesis must be literal but that acknowledging evolution diminishes the special uniqueness of the human soul
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    In what way does it? I thought all that was because of a distinction bestowed by God, not because of anything material.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  Well, they view Genesis as a literal account. I agree with you, though. As far as the latter point - it was mostly that, at least where I was, a desire to keep government out of religion paired with a desire for religion not to be too involved in government. Among other things they knew that other denominations were more powerful than them and would have far more influence in government. I'm not an SDA booster (I'm not a member and haven't attended any church for 20 years, and found the insularity of the community stifling) but I still think it's a really interesting denomination.
- BobbyTables2 2y ago
  Christians do seem to revel in how the early believers were persecuted for their faith… Of course, they too shared that experience with others in the times of the Charlemagne and that of the Inquisition.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
phatskat 2y ago
The Behind the Bastards about Dr Kellogg (yes, _that_ Kellogg) is a pretty entertaining listen and gives a good look at early SDA in America.

dataviz1000 2y ago

> California Adventists have higher life expectancies at the age of 30 years than other white Californians by 7.28 years (95% confidence interval, 6.59-7.97 years) in men and by 4.42 years (95% confidence interval, 3.96-4.88 years) in women, giving them perhaps the highest life expectancy of any formally described population. [0] SDA live a lot longer. The SDA vegetarian diet was also the driving force behind the Kellogg's Cereal company [1] [0] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/648593 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Keith_Kellogg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Keith_Kellogg

CalRobert 2y ago
Vegetarian diet, abstinence from alcohol and smoking, and maybe most of all pretty strong (albeit also quite insular) communities. They seemed to be pretty well-off too, for the most part.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  I can only imagine how much better a person does in college when they're not drinking or smoking and perhaps even minimizing their promiscuity. That's gotta improve their chances against over 90% of their peers, at least, I imagine. "Youth is wasted on the young" is only true because our youth are not taught how to not conserve and utilize their energy.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    I never got into drinking and smoking, but I wish I'd been a little promiscuous in college. I'm pretty hung up on it
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      Yeah, it's difficult to find the middle path between too much and too little. Those little mental gremlins always try to push us too far in the opposite direction. It's the nature of our internal enemy, the enemy of both our inner peace and happiness and our outer peace and happiness with other people. Peace be with you, friend.
  - Brybry 2y ago
    Anecdotally, I didn't smoke or drink and was celibate during college and I dropped out twice. My sister drank a lot and was very promiscuous and went on to become a doctor. I think doing well in college is probably more about factors like time management skills and social support network than about vices.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago

ToucanLoucan 2y ago

> It was interesting that they had a ton of dentists, doctors, etc. and ran well-regarded medical schools, but also espoused young Earth creationism. Creationism is a canned joke ideological point that American Christians of all types seemingly can't get enough of. It's hilariously bad "science" at the very best, and outright farce at the worst. But for some reason simply acknowledging evolution is, seemingly as of the last 20 years or so, utterly untenable, and so they perform. > They also were generally suspicious of government involvement in religion, with many worried about a "national Sunday law" and being disallowed from worshipping on Saturday. I mean that just sounds like garden variety Christian persecution complex to me. I don't think a certain segment of the Christian population can properly reckon with reality if they don't feel they are being somehow oppressed despite running... basically everything.

jncfhnb 2y ago
The origin the dispute is not so much arguing that Genesis must be literal but that acknowledging evolution diminishes the special uniqueness of the human soul
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  In what way does it? I thought all that was because of a distinction bestowed by God, not because of anything material.
CalRobert 2y ago
Well, they view Genesis as a literal account. I agree with you, though. As far as the latter point - it was mostly that, at least where I was, a desire to keep government out of religion paired with a desire for religion not to be too involved in government. Among other things they knew that other denominations were more powerful than them and would have far more influence in government. I'm not an SDA booster (I'm not a member and haven't attended any church for 20 years, and found the insularity of the community stifling) but I still think it's a really interesting denomination.
BobbyTables2 2y ago
Christians do seem to revel in how the early believers were persecuted for their faith… Of course, they too shared that experience with others in the times of the Charlemagne and that of the Inquisition.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

phatskat 2y ago

The Behind the Bastards about Dr Kellogg (yes, _that_ Kellogg) is a pretty entertaining listen and gives a good look at early SDA in America.