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nice, V lang. How come I don't hear about this as much as zyg/odin/jai etc?

dharmab 2y ago
V is pre-1.0, and you have to install it by compiling it from source. I'm very excited about V. It's the language I wish Go was.
- devnull3 2y ago
  I don't know V but mostly what I have read about V is that it is vaporware [1]. Is there truth to this impression? [1] https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&channel=entpr&q=vlang+vaporware https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&channel=ent...
  - dharmab 2y ago
    Go look at the commit log and tell me if it looks like abandonware.
    - tcmart14 2y ago
      They said vaporware, which isn't necessarily the same thing as abandonware. It still could be vaporware if it never lives up to delivering what it promised. I'm not sure on the current state of those promises though, so I don't know if the outlook of it being vaporware is true anymore. At one point it looked like it, but I haven't kept up with it enough.
      - tauraamui 2y ago
        This is a good POV. For a while there they did think they had a chance at finally figuring out how to solve the halting problem. They of course haven't, and had no chance to do so, but they wanted to discover that for sure, for themselves. So I admire them for trying. These days autofree handles about 95% of allocations, but what's left dangling is pruned by their very low cost tight cleanup looped GC. If you really need to you can do manual memory management, from my fairly substantial usage of the language so far I've been a satisfied customer for sure. I've found compiler bugs, strange behaviour, edge cases etc., yes the team are blunt and to the point, but they're the most professional language team I've ever interacted with, often responding within hours, one time a compiler fix was released the next day.
      - amedvednikov 2y ago
        Everything that's listed on the home page is delivered.
  - fayten 2y ago
    I have seen this thrown around a lot, but I do not think it is true anymore. V lang had a rough launch from what I can tell, with the author overselling and mistakenly underestimating the amount of work needed to fulfill their vision. V still has a ways to go, but it is in constant heavy development with lots of contributors. It also has a wide gambit of interesting hobby projects using it. I'd recommend taking a look at the the examples here:https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/examples https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/examples I think the language has a lot of potential.
- imiric 2y ago
  V has good ideas on paper, but most of its claimed features are aspirational. Actually using it for any real world project is an exercise in frustration and confusion, since you're never sure if the weird behavior is intentional or a bug. The documentation is outdated, missing or wrong. The implementation is a mess, even in its pre-1.0 state. Most projects written in it[1] are either demos or abandonware. Much has been discussed about it, and every few years someone writes a "V Language Review" with the same findings. I gave it a try a few months ago and ran into many of the same issues. I'd stay away, and stick with Go, or Zig, Odin or Nim if you're interested in similar alternatives. [1]: https://github.com/vlang/awesome-v https://github.com/vlang/awesome-v
  - amedvednikov 2y ago
    Can you list any weird behavior/bugs that lead to frustration and confusion? And examples of the documentation being outdated/wrong?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - imiric 2y ago
      Oh, hello again. :) I have no desire to get into a discussion. You can find plenty of details in feedback from people who have given your language a try over the years. Here's a blog post from September 2024[1]. A quick glance at the open issues yields [2], and many others if you search for "immutable". To be fair, open issues are a sign of interest and people wanting to move the project forward, which is good. I think what you're trying to achieve is commendable, and I truly wish a language as you envisioned it existed. But it's really hard to take the project seriously when one of its core features is not well defined and causes confusion after 5 years of existence. I remember running into similar issues when I tried it last year, but just didn't bother to document or report any of it. You can assume that for every person who creates an issue, there are 10x that amount who don't bother and move on. [1]: https://justinas.org/the-bizarre-world-of-v https://justinas.org/the-bizarre-world-of-v [2]: https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/23509 https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/23509
- amedvednikov 2y ago
  There are prebuilt packages you can install from the home page and from the github repo. For example https://github.com/vlang/v/releases/latest/download/v_linux.zip https://github.com/vlang/v/releases/latest/download/v_linux....
  - dharmab 2y ago
    Oh, I didn't see it in Homebrew, so I searched for "install V" and found the documentation which only has compiling from source.
    - amedvednikov 2y ago
      Good point. I'll add the homebrew installation method. Maybe some other popular package managers. V is very easy to install from source and to bootstrap. And it changes fast. So we're not big fans of package managers yet.
johnisgood 2y ago
There has been drama about V and its creator perhaps? I do not remember what exactly. Could anyone remind me what it was all about? Oh, the vaporware thing? BTW I checked the Patreon page. It says "V 1.0 release is planned for 2020". Might want to change that. :D
- square_usual 2y ago
  V overpromised and underdelivered, and the creator is pretty abrasive and went to war with anyone who criticized it, so most people stopped paying attention to it until it fulfills what was promised.
  - baranul 2y ago
    It would be fair to say that many would disagree or have different opinions about the language and the creator. V's creator has an open discussion for criticism[1], which many other languages don't have. After reading various related threads, the strange abrasiveness and negativity often seems to be from others, not the other way around. Clearly, many people are paying attention to V. It is quite popular at GitHub with over 36.2k stars, 2.2k forks, and 775 contributors. [1] https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610 https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610
- hiccuphippo 2y ago
  I remember looking at their code years ago and the network library was calling the curl cli. I didn't pay attention to it since then.
  - amedvednikov 2y ago
    The network library doesn't use curl: https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net
    - tauraamui 2y ago
      They said years ago, when they last took a look. Just a thought, maybe just let all this go, people are complicated, you'll never please everyone. It's not worth the time trying. If anything you're giving them more ammo to prove them right about your attitude to negative takes. I'm not taking sides, just my opinion! :)
pmarreck 2y ago
keep looking and you’ll see why. chaotic-neutral dictator/chief dev categorizes any criticism (regardless of merit) as trolling and bans; language design far exceeds technical merit of implementation details; basically, things only look good on paper, but fall apart once you get past the shallow end of the pool. I went to Nim instead for similar use-cases.
- amedvednikov 2y ago
  Hm V literally has a big discussion called "What don't you like about V / what would you like to be changed?" https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610 https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610 What exactly do you think only looks good on paper?
  - tauraamui 2y ago
    So it begins...
  - pmarreck 2y ago
    https://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d0757 https://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d07... I have a toddler demanding 99% of my free time so I apologize in advance for the LLM shortcut but this looks correct based on my experience
- tauraamui 2y ago
  I've been finding it perfectly suitable for this and other projects. Have you updated your point of view after recently attempting to write and profile a non trivial program?
  - pmarreck 2y ago
    https://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d0757 https://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d07... I have a toddler demanding 99% of my free time so I apologize in advance for the LLM shortcut but this looks correct based on my experience

V is pre-1.0, and you have to install it by compiling it from source. I'm very excited about V. It's the language I wish Go was.

devnull3 2y ago
I don't know V but mostly what I have read about V is that it is vaporware [1]. Is there truth to this impression? [1] https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&channel=entpr&q=vlang+vaporware https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&channel=ent...
- dharmab 2y ago
  Go look at the commit log and tell me if it looks like abandonware.
  - tcmart14 2y ago
    They said vaporware, which isn't necessarily the same thing as abandonware. It still could be vaporware if it never lives up to delivering what it promised. I'm not sure on the current state of those promises though, so I don't know if the outlook of it being vaporware is true anymore. At one point it looked like it, but I haven't kept up with it enough.
    - tauraamui 2y ago
      This is a good POV. For a while there they did think they had a chance at finally figuring out how to solve the halting problem. They of course haven't, and had no chance to do so, but they wanted to discover that for sure, for themselves. So I admire them for trying. These days autofree handles about 95% of allocations, but what's left dangling is pruned by their very low cost tight cleanup looped GC. If you really need to you can do manual memory management, from my fairly substantial usage of the language so far I've been a satisfied customer for sure. I've found compiler bugs, strange behaviour, edge cases etc., yes the team are blunt and to the point, but they're the most professional language team I've ever interacted with, often responding within hours, one time a compiler fix was released the next day.
    - amedvednikov 2y ago
      Everything that's listed on the home page is delivered.
- fayten 2y ago
  I have seen this thrown around a lot, but I do not think it is true anymore. V lang had a rough launch from what I can tell, with the author overselling and mistakenly underestimating the amount of work needed to fulfill their vision. V still has a ways to go, but it is in constant heavy development with lots of contributors. It also has a wide gambit of interesting hobby projects using it. I'd recommend taking a look at the the examples here:https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/examples https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/examples I think the language has a lot of potential.
imiric 2y ago
V has good ideas on paper, but most of its claimed features are aspirational. Actually using it for any real world project is an exercise in frustration and confusion, since you're never sure if the weird behavior is intentional or a bug. The documentation is outdated, missing or wrong. The implementation is a mess, even in its pre-1.0 state. Most projects written in it[1] are either demos or abandonware. Much has been discussed about it, and every few years someone writes a "V Language Review" with the same findings. I gave it a try a few months ago and ran into many of the same issues. I'd stay away, and stick with Go, or Zig, Odin or Nim if you're interested in similar alternatives. [1]: https://github.com/vlang/awesome-v https://github.com/vlang/awesome-v
- amedvednikov 2y ago
  Can you list any weird behavior/bugs that lead to frustration and confusion? And examples of the documentation being outdated/wrong?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - imiric 2y ago
    Oh, hello again. :) I have no desire to get into a discussion. You can find plenty of details in feedback from people who have given your language a try over the years. Here's a blog post from September 2024[1]. A quick glance at the open issues yields [2], and many others if you search for "immutable". To be fair, open issues are a sign of interest and people wanting to move the project forward, which is good. I think what you're trying to achieve is commendable, and I truly wish a language as you envisioned it existed. But it's really hard to take the project seriously when one of its core features is not well defined and causes confusion after 5 years of existence. I remember running into similar issues when I tried it last year, but just didn't bother to document or report any of it. You can assume that for every person who creates an issue, there are 10x that amount who don't bother and move on. [1]: https://justinas.org/the-bizarre-world-of-v https://justinas.org/the-bizarre-world-of-v [2]: https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/23509 https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/23509
amedvednikov 2y ago
There are prebuilt packages you can install from the home page and from the github repo. For example https://github.com/vlang/v/releases/latest/download/v_linux.zip https://github.com/vlang/v/releases/latest/download/v_linux....
- dharmab 2y ago
  Oh, I didn't see it in Homebrew, so I searched for "install V" and found the documentation which only has compiling from source.
  - amedvednikov 2y ago
    Good point. I'll add the homebrew installation method. Maybe some other popular package managers. V is very easy to install from source and to bootstrap. And it changes fast. So we're not big fans of package managers yet.

johnisgood 2y ago

There has been drama about V and its creator perhaps? I do not remember what exactly. Could anyone remind me what it was all about? Oh, the vaporware thing? BTW I checked the Patreon page. It says "V 1.0 release is planned for 2020". Might want to change that. :D

square_usual 2y ago
V overpromised and underdelivered, and the creator is pretty abrasive and went to war with anyone who criticized it, so most people stopped paying attention to it until it fulfills what was promised.
- baranul 2y ago
  It would be fair to say that many would disagree or have different opinions about the language and the creator. V's creator has an open discussion for criticism[1], which many other languages don't have. After reading various related threads, the strange abrasiveness and negativity often seems to be from others, not the other way around. Clearly, many people are paying attention to V. It is quite popular at GitHub with over 36.2k stars, 2.2k forks, and 775 contributors. [1] https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610 https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610
hiccuphippo 2y ago
I remember looking at their code years ago and the network library was calling the curl cli. I didn't pay attention to it since then.
- amedvednikov 2y ago
  The network library doesn't use curl: https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net
  - tauraamui 2y ago
    They said years ago, when they last took a look. Just a thought, maybe just let all this go, people are complicated, you'll never please everyone. It's not worth the time trying. If anything you're giving them more ammo to prove them right about your attitude to negative takes. I'm not taking sides, just my opinion! :)

pmarreck 2y ago

keep looking and you’ll see why. chaotic-neutral dictator/chief dev categorizes any criticism (regardless of merit) as trolling and bans; language design far exceeds technical merit of implementation details; basically, things only look good on paper, but fall apart once you get past the shallow end of the pool. I went to Nim instead for similar use-cases.

amedvednikov 2y ago
Hm V literally has a big discussion called "What don't you like about V / what would you like to be changed?" https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610 https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610 What exactly do you think only looks good on paper?
- tauraamui 2y ago
  So it begins...
- pmarreck 2y ago
  https://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d0757 https://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d07... I have a toddler demanding 99% of my free time so I apologize in advance for the LLM shortcut but this looks correct based on my experience
tauraamui 2y ago
I've been finding it perfectly suitable for this and other projects. Have you updated your point of view after recently attempting to write and profile a non trivial program?
- pmarreck 2y ago
  https://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d0757 https://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d07... I have a toddler demanding 99% of my free time so I apologize in advance for the LLM shortcut but this looks correct based on my experience