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A great list although the phrase cherry-picking comes to mind. Should we add 8. "Wright biplane used ground mounted launching rails, and assistance of a catapul

A great list although the phrase cherry-picking comes to mind. Should we add 8. "Wright biplane used ground mounted launching rails, and assistance of a catapult". New Zealand has its own contentious "powered flight" claimant Richard Pearse: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Pearse https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Pearse Self-promotion and patriotism often are the biggest influence on what the narrative becomes (e.g. Edison, space race).

WalterBright 2y ago
1. The 1903 Flyer did not use a catapult. It did use a single rail, as taking off from sand is not very practical. 2. There's a lot of question about Pearse's first flight, as to its date and whether it happened at all - because Pearse left behind no photos, drawings, documentation, or the airplane. 3. Edison's claims are fully documented, witnessed, patented, and litigated.
- db48x 2y ago
  Close. The 1901 glider used a rail and took off down hill. Their Flyer used skids and could take off from level ground even on sand.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    The skids were for landing. I don't recall them ever taking off using the skids.
    - db48x 2y ago
      You’re right. The book I most recently read on the subject talked about them disassembling the rail down the hillside that the glider used and then later putting it up on flat ground. I don’t know how I missed that part, especially since the pictures of early flights clearly show the Flyer taking off from that very rail.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Echoing my other comment on patents elsewhere in the thread, Edison's innovations had big, direct and lasting impact on the world. For example, his work is responsible for creating Hollywood as a place and symbol of US film industry - specifically because he owned most of the patents critical for movie production, and was so litigious that the filmmakers decided to all literally move to the other side of the continent to be able to infringe on those patents without consequences.
  - fumufumufumu 2y ago
    No idea if this is trustworthy but a documentary on Westinghouse claimed that Edison took credit for all of his employee's inventions. Westinghouse did not. https://youtu.be/wuqodfC9WwY?t=3790 https://youtu.be/wuqodfC9WwY?t=3790
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Edison gets credit for inventing the inventing business. The Wrights get credit for the first directed research and development project. (The Apollo project took that to an extreme!)
    - vl 2y ago
      Surely steam engines or other Industrial Revolution inventions should take credit for first directed research and development projects?
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        Those inventions were incremental progress by individual inventors. Not a directed research and development project. If you know of one that existed prior to the Wright, I'd like to hear about it. The Apollo program is a stellar(!) example of a directed research and development project. They started with a goal, identified the problems, solved each problem in an organized manner, and put the solutions together and accomplished the goal.
        2y ago
- peterashford 2y ago
  Pearse certainly did not document his experiments well. But there were multiple witnesses. It appears that he achieved flight on 31th March 1903. The Wright brother's contributions to flight were obviously more significant due to their process but that alone does not mean that they were first.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    There are lots of witnesses to bigfoot, too. It took several years of concerted effort for the Wrights to achieve flight. Is it possible that someone tinkering in a barn could design and build one in one go? Engine, wings, propellor, flight controls, all correctly put together? Where are the remains of his machine? His notebooks? It's possible that Pearson did it, but highly unlikely. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I've invented things that I never documented. Other people invented them later, documented it, and got the credit. That's how it works.

WalterBright 2y ago

1. The 1903 Flyer did not use a catapult. It did use a single rail, as taking off from sand is not very practical. 2. There's a lot of question about Pearse's first flight, as to its date and whether it happened at all - because Pearse left behind no photos, drawings, documentation, or the airplane. 3. Edison's claims are fully documented, witnessed, patented, and litigated.

db48x 2y ago
Close. The 1901 glider used a rail and took off down hill. Their Flyer used skids and could take off from level ground even on sand.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  The skids were for landing. I don't recall them ever taking off using the skids.
  - db48x 2y ago
    You’re right. The book I most recently read on the subject talked about them disassembling the rail down the hillside that the glider used and then later putting it up on flat ground. I don’t know how I missed that part, especially since the pictures of early flights clearly show the Flyer taking off from that very rail.
TeMPOraL 2y ago
Echoing my other comment on patents elsewhere in the thread, Edison's innovations had big, direct and lasting impact on the world. For example, his work is responsible for creating Hollywood as a place and symbol of US film industry - specifically because he owned most of the patents critical for movie production, and was so litigious that the filmmakers decided to all literally move to the other side of the continent to be able to infringe on those patents without consequences.
- fumufumufumu 2y ago
  No idea if this is trustworthy but a documentary on Westinghouse claimed that Edison took credit for all of his employee's inventions. Westinghouse did not. https://youtu.be/wuqodfC9WwY?t=3790 https://youtu.be/wuqodfC9WwY?t=3790
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Edison gets credit for inventing the inventing business. The Wrights get credit for the first directed research and development project. (The Apollo project took that to an extreme!)
  - vl 2y ago
    Surely steam engines or other Industrial Revolution inventions should take credit for first directed research and development projects?
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      Those inventions were incremental progress by individual inventors. Not a directed research and development project. If you know of one that existed prior to the Wright, I'd like to hear about it. The Apollo program is a stellar(!) example of a directed research and development project. They started with a goal, identified the problems, solved each problem in an organized manner, and put the solutions together and accomplished the goal.
      - 2y ago
peterashford 2y ago
Pearse certainly did not document his experiments well. But there were multiple witnesses. It appears that he achieved flight on 31th March 1903. The Wright brother's contributions to flight were obviously more significant due to their process but that alone does not mean that they were first.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  There are lots of witnesses to bigfoot, too. It took several years of concerted effort for the Wrights to achieve flight. Is it possible that someone tinkering in a barn could design and build one in one go? Engine, wings, propellor, flight controls, all correctly put together? Where are the remains of his machine? His notebooks? It's possible that Pearson did it, but highly unlikely. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I've invented things that I never documented. Other people invented them later, documented it, and got the credit. That's how it works.