5 ms·

I always argue that the Wright Bros are the USA's greatest engineer(s).¹ Planes today still use the same design (in fact, the Flyer is even better—a twisting wi

I always argue that the Wright Bros are the USA's greatest engineer(s).¹ Planes today still use the same design (in fact, the Flyer is even better—a twisting wing is more efficient than ailerons, but we haven't figured out how to make titanium, aluminum & carbon fiber bendy like wood (yet)). ¹–my 2nd spot goes to John Moses Browning – also, whose 120+ year designs are not only still in use, they're still in production.

WalterBright 2y ago
The 1903 Flyer did have one defect - it was unstable in pitch. It required an active hand on the pitch control.
- seabass-labrax 2y ago
  I am forgiving of this defect for the reason that my attempts at aircraft in Kerbal Space Program have mostly had the same issues! There is a very, very small difference in design between an unstable plane and one with practically no pitch control at all, and the ideal configuration is found just between the two.
- jshmrsn 2y ago
  This is true again for the most advanced fighter aircraft, except the active hand is now a computer.
  - dmoy 2y ago
    Rockets too Can't do that in Kerbal Space Program (at least not without mods), but it works fine in meatspace
- kwertyoowiyop 2y ago
  My understanding is that this was intentional. They thought instability was needed for their desired maneuverability. Today we see this as the wrong answer to the question of whether an airplane should be stable or unstable, but it shows how far ahead they were that nobody else even knew enough to ask that question.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    The Flyer didn't have a dihedral, either. A dihedral gives it roll stability.
carabiner 2y ago
The Flyer was a canard design which would be considered a non-standard configuration today. And I respect the Wrights a lot, but the last book I read on them said that if they hadn't invented their aircraft, someone else in the world would have done it within 10 years. The Wrights were in touch with other experimentalists around the world like Cayley, Lilienthal and drew from their work. Also the science of fluid mechanics was way further ahead of aeronautical engineering with guys like Prandtl at Caltech (though an airplane isn't just challenged fluids problems). So stuff like the airfoil and prop optimization probably would have followed from that as well.
- hugs 2y ago
  "...someone else in the world would have done it within 10 years." That is arguably true of every invention ever invented.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    It is, and being aware of that is crucial in having the right perspective on inventors (and same is true about scientific discoveries). That is, they're not some superhuman geniuses so far ahead the rest of humanity, that through sheer power of their minds, they can wrestle breakthroughs from the hands of gods. No, they're just specialists who were at the right time and place, and had the right experience, to be the first to pluck an invention that was already ripe for the taking. This isn't to diminish the value of inventors. Even as all discoveries are tiny increments on top of prior work, so tiny they quickly become apparent to many people in a given field, it still takes exceptional skills, knowledge and smarts to be the first (or one of the firsts) to make that increment. That is worthy of respect. But at the same time, inventors are not critical to inventions - if not for the inventor we know, someone else would've done the same within months or years.
    - rexer 2y ago
      > being aware of that is crucial in having the right perspective on inventors. Can you go a step further on why the right perspective here is important? Feels like you’re telling a kid Santa Claus doesn’t exist. Why kill the magic?
silisili 2y ago
I'm inclined to agree. If their wiki is true, they were just doing it out of rather pure interest with no financial backers whatsoever until later on. In fact it made it sound like other countries basically quit funding some other claimants listed in this thread because of how bad they turned out and assumed the brothers were scammers making fake claims. Until they showed up one day and flew circles in the air. That pure drive of doing something out of sheer interest and refusal to accept failure is really inspirational. I wish I had half the drive they did!
- ant6n 2y ago
  We have no problem with drive and interest, but I wish we had half the funding of the scammers!
- WalterBright 2y ago
  The Wrights were motivated by money. They wanted to get rich off of licensing their technology. They turned out to be fantastic engineers, but not so good at making money.
  - bryanrasmussen 2y ago
    according to the U.S Park Service they got rich, but looked forward to being able to retire and devote themselves to scientific research again https://www.nps.gov/articles/wright-brothers.htm https://www.nps.gov/articles/wright-brothers.htm
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      They got rich after they stepped down from management.
  - cryptonector 2y ago
    It turns out that greedy patent licensing schemes kill the patented ideas rather than lead to innovation. Patents themselves can be worthwhile for society, but we need patent lifetimes that comport to each industries typical R&D cost recoup times, not 20+ years.
connicpu 2y ago
You can bend those materials at least once, the problem is bending them and still having the wings maintain their integrity through tens of thousands of flight hours.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  The wings bend anyway. Watch 'em next time you fly. The fuselage also twists and bends. This is why, in a long airliner, curtains are put in at intervals. This is because the twisting and bending is visible to the passengers in the back, and it unnerves them.
x3n0ph3n3 2y ago
Not quite. The propeller and control surface configuration is now reversed from what was used on the original Flyer.
cookiengineer 2y ago
I would add in second place Skunkworks and the A12, which is the perfection of aviation technology in my opinion. It's just such an insane piece of technology, in every part you take a look at it gets more and more absurd of what's in that plane. And if you build an airplane so absurdly advanced that 70+ years later people still think it was aliens that built it, you've set your mark in the history books. Third place in my heart takes the Rutan Voyager [2] which essentially pushed its efficiency so hard that it coincidentally invented the design for modern delivery drones. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_A-12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_A-12 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_Voyager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_Voyager
- moralestapia 2y ago
  Oh man, I love the A12 and its design is just amazing. It's the perfect aircraft 10/10.

WalterBright 2y ago

The 1903 Flyer did have one defect - it was unstable in pitch. It required an active hand on the pitch control.

seabass-labrax 2y ago
I am forgiving of this defect for the reason that my attempts at aircraft in Kerbal Space Program have mostly had the same issues! There is a very, very small difference in design between an unstable plane and one with practically no pitch control at all, and the ideal configuration is found just between the two.
jshmrsn 2y ago
This is true again for the most advanced fighter aircraft, except the active hand is now a computer.
- dmoy 2y ago
  Rockets too Can't do that in Kerbal Space Program (at least not without mods), but it works fine in meatspace
kwertyoowiyop 2y ago
My understanding is that this was intentional. They thought instability was needed for their desired maneuverability. Today we see this as the wrong answer to the question of whether an airplane should be stable or unstable, but it shows how far ahead they were that nobody else even knew enough to ask that question.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  The Flyer didn't have a dihedral, either. A dihedral gives it roll stability.

carabiner 2y ago

The Flyer was a canard design which would be considered a non-standard configuration today. And I respect the Wrights a lot, but the last book I read on them said that if they hadn't invented their aircraft, someone else in the world would have done it within 10 years. The Wrights were in touch with other experimentalists around the world like Cayley, Lilienthal and drew from their work. Also the science of fluid mechanics was way further ahead of aeronautical engineering with guys like Prandtl at Caltech (though an airplane isn't just challenged fluids problems). So stuff like the airfoil and prop optimization probably would have followed from that as well.

hugs 2y ago
"...someone else in the world would have done it within 10 years." That is arguably true of every invention ever invented.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  It is, and being aware of that is crucial in having the right perspective on inventors (and same is true about scientific discoveries). That is, they're not some superhuman geniuses so far ahead the rest of humanity, that through sheer power of their minds, they can wrestle breakthroughs from the hands of gods. No, they're just specialists who were at the right time and place, and had the right experience, to be the first to pluck an invention that was already ripe for the taking. This isn't to diminish the value of inventors. Even as all discoveries are tiny increments on top of prior work, so tiny they quickly become apparent to many people in a given field, it still takes exceptional skills, knowledge and smarts to be the first (or one of the firsts) to make that increment. That is worthy of respect. But at the same time, inventors are not critical to inventions - if not for the inventor we know, someone else would've done the same within months or years.
  - rexer 2y ago
    > being aware of that is crucial in having the right perspective on inventors. Can you go a step further on why the right perspective here is important? Feels like you’re telling a kid Santa Claus doesn’t exist. Why kill the magic?

silisili 2y ago

I'm inclined to agree. If their wiki is true, they were just doing it out of rather pure interest with no financial backers whatsoever until later on. In fact it made it sound like other countries basically quit funding some other claimants listed in this thread because of how bad they turned out and assumed the brothers were scammers making fake claims. Until they showed up one day and flew circles in the air. That pure drive of doing something out of sheer interest and refusal to accept failure is really inspirational. I wish I had half the drive they did!

ant6n 2y ago
We have no problem with drive and interest, but I wish we had half the funding of the scammers!
WalterBright 2y ago
The Wrights were motivated by money. They wanted to get rich off of licensing their technology. They turned out to be fantastic engineers, but not so good at making money.
- bryanrasmussen 2y ago
  according to the U.S Park Service they got rich, but looked forward to being able to retire and devote themselves to scientific research again https://www.nps.gov/articles/wright-brothers.htm https://www.nps.gov/articles/wright-brothers.htm
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    They got rich after they stepped down from management.
- cryptonector 2y ago
  It turns out that greedy patent licensing schemes kill the patented ideas rather than lead to innovation. Patents themselves can be worthwhile for society, but we need patent lifetimes that comport to each industries typical R&D cost recoup times, not 20+ years.

connicpu 2y ago

You can bend those materials at least once, the problem is bending them and still having the wings maintain their integrity through tens of thousands of flight hours.

WalterBright 2y ago
The wings bend anyway. Watch 'em next time you fly. The fuselage also twists and bends. This is why, in a long airliner, curtains are put in at intervals. This is because the twisting and bending is visible to the passengers in the back, and it unnerves them.

x3n0ph3n3 2y ago

Not quite. The propeller and control surface configuration is now reversed from what was used on the original Flyer.

cookiengineer 2y ago

I would add in second place Skunkworks and the A12, which is the perfection of aviation technology in my opinion. It's just such an insane piece of technology, in every part you take a look at it gets more and more absurd of what's in that plane. And if you build an airplane so absurdly advanced that 70+ years later people still think it was aliens that built it, you've set your mark in the history books. Third place in my heart takes the Rutan Voyager [2] which essentially pushed its efficiency so hard that it coincidentally invented the design for modern delivery drones. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_A-12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_A-12 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_Voyager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_Voyager

moralestapia 2y ago
Oh man, I love the A12 and its design is just amazing. It's the perfect aircraft 10/10.