4 ms·

CTRL+F 'Enron' 0 results. Don't really trust something advocating for deregulated energy markets to not mention the elephant in the room.

username332211 2y ago
Deregulation is such a funny word. The California deregulation you are referring to, involved the powers that be pushing utility companies to sell their power plants. The current energy deregulation in the EU involves forcing utilities to trade electricity in a spot market, that treats the on-demand production of conventional power plants and the random and unpredictable production of solar and wind, as if it's completely equivalent. Of course, that's a fairly effective way to promote solar, as it's far more intrusive than conventional renewable mandates. As far as I can see, "deregulation" means, "we regulate far more aggressively than before, but there's now a market in there where Wall Street types can make money".
- Tepix 2y ago
  In the EU there are fundings for strategic reserves in various countries that coal/gas/nuclear/geothermal/biogas plants receive.
- cbsmith 2y ago
  > The current energy deregulation in the EU involves forcing utilities to trade electricity in a spot market, that treats the on-demand production of conventional power plants and the random and unpredictable production of solar and wind, as if it's completely equivalent. The California case also forced utilities to trade electricity in a spot market. These markets always seem oriented towards purchasing power rather than capacity, which strikes me as odd. Power companies need committed capacity, because they need to have reserves of power. Sure, buying electricity that no one else is using makes sense, but because demand is comparatively inelastic, it's just crazy to have that be how companies ensure they have sufficient capacity.
outer_web 2y ago
Yeah he even has a section about deregulation problems in Texas and California... then talks only about wildfires in 2020. Deregulating an industry to achieve a specific goal is certainly one approach.
_bin_ 2y ago
the big issue with enron was semi-fraudulent accounting, not market manipulation. the stuff they puleld in cali was pretty slimy but i don't think something nearly thirty years old needs mention. any more than it does if a company wants to use mark-to-market accounting.
- outer_web 2y ago
  Nothing has changed in twenty years. Texans still hate California, businesses still exploit people for profit.
- cool_dude85 2y ago
  Sorry, Enron was rigging brownouts to seek profit. How many people do you think these brownouts killed? That goes well beyond "pretty slimy."
miohtama 2y ago
Enron was the result accounting fraud, not energy market regulation or lack of it.
- ZeroGravitas 2y ago
  Enron had multiple scandals. A big one was all about deregulation and manipulation of the California electricity market. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%932001_California_electricity_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%932001_California...
- outer_web 2y ago
  Lol their bankruptcy was. Read up on it or watch the documentary.

username332211 2y ago

Deregulation is such a funny word. The California deregulation you are referring to, involved the powers that be pushing utility companies to sell their power plants. The current energy deregulation in the EU involves forcing utilities to trade electricity in a spot market, that treats the on-demand production of conventional power plants and the random and unpredictable production of solar and wind, as if it's completely equivalent. Of course, that's a fairly effective way to promote solar, as it's far more intrusive than conventional renewable mandates. As far as I can see, "deregulation" means, "we regulate far more aggressively than before, but there's now a market in there where Wall Street types can make money".

Tepix 2y ago
In the EU there are fundings for strategic reserves in various countries that coal/gas/nuclear/geothermal/biogas plants receive.
cbsmith 2y ago
> The current energy deregulation in the EU involves forcing utilities to trade electricity in a spot market, that treats the on-demand production of conventional power plants and the random and unpredictable production of solar and wind, as if it's completely equivalent. The California case also forced utilities to trade electricity in a spot market. These markets always seem oriented towards purchasing power rather than capacity, which strikes me as odd. Power companies need committed capacity, because they need to have reserves of power. Sure, buying electricity that no one else is using makes sense, but because demand is comparatively inelastic, it's just crazy to have that be how companies ensure they have sufficient capacity.

outer_web 2y ago

Yeah he even has a section about deregulation problems in Texas and California... then talks only about wildfires in 2020. Deregulating an industry to achieve a specific goal is certainly one approach.

_bin_ 2y ago

the big issue with enron was semi-fraudulent accounting, not market manipulation. the stuff they puleld in cali was pretty slimy but i don't think something nearly thirty years old needs mention. any more than it does if a company wants to use mark-to-market accounting.

outer_web 2y ago
Nothing has changed in twenty years. Texans still hate California, businesses still exploit people for profit.
cool_dude85 2y ago
Sorry, Enron was rigging brownouts to seek profit. How many people do you think these brownouts killed? That goes well beyond "pretty slimy."

miohtama 2y ago

Enron was the result accounting fraud, not energy market regulation or lack of it.

ZeroGravitas 2y ago
Enron had multiple scandals. A big one was all about deregulation and manipulation of the California electricity market. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%932001_California_electricity_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%932001_California...
outer_web 2y ago
Lol their bankruptcy was. Read up on it or watch the documentary.